Keeping Mental Integrity

**servdragoon** · 08-07-2002, 10:47 PM

Today while at the club, i felt there were times when i could control what i do and what my opponent does very well. When i felt like that things would work out the way i wanted. Low and behold it would not stay, i could actually feel it leave and the result would be me hesitating or making bad choices. I think that the feeling of being able to control the bout in the way you want to during a bout might be considered being in the zone. Anyone have any clues as to how to stay there?

**John Nguyen** · 08-07-2002, 10:54 PM

Confuscious say Zone is mental.

What I do is blur my vision when I fence. I blur my vision so that the only "active" things in my line of sight are the shoulders, feet, and blade of my opponent. I disregard the strip, and director. Its only when I notice them that I loset this TOTAL concentration. Think of it this way, when you are using a camera, and trying to take picture of the landscape, the picture turns out great because it focuses on EVERYTHING

However, when you add Auntie Em, into the pic, it focuses on her nearer image. Therefore the rest becomes blurred. Same concept, ONLY concentrate on thier feet, shoulders, and blade. Since there feet gives distance, thier blade is what you gotta watch out for, and shuolders help you maintain that concentration. I dont know if it helps, but I tend to do this in really heated bouts, and it seems to work. Also, I used to be so concerned about "faking my opponent" that I lost form, and consequently the zone never appeared, with this sort of "blurred vision" I tended to score ALOT more points on just a straight lunge.

eh...who knows!

John

**servdragoon** · 08-07-2002, 10:57 PM

So blurring your vision have some kind of ability to keep one in the zone?

I was thinking it would take some sort of mental manipulation rather that physical
So you blurr your vision in order to filter out the things that arnt as impotrant to you which keeps the important things "active". Couldnt you do all that with your eyes normal, by telling yourself to pay particular attention to the areas that you think are most important?

[ 08-08-2002, 03:12 AM: Message edited by: servdragoon ]

**John Nguyen** · 08-07-2002, 11:11 PM

well, that helps me concentrate, because im not focusing on the crying babies, the mirrors, and other distractions. It merely helps me ENTER the zone, staying there is easy because once you isolate the system "or clear the mechanism (See the movie FOR LOVE OF THE GAME with Kevin Costner) its hard to get out because theres nothing to concentrate on but WHATS in front of you.

Hard, I know, but also trying singing a little diddy while you are fencing. I tend to think of "The Good stuff" when fencing (song by Kenny Chesney) and it helps with my tempo.

sigh, country music and Baseball, things I picked up while at college heh!

JOhn

**John Nguyen** · 08-07-2002, 11:12 PM

crap! Never tell anyone you are fencing about the song thing. Cause we have a country station in Richmond, and I fear that if my opponent is an avid listener, he will be "telegraphed" my tempo

NOOOOOOOO! Foiled again batman!!!
NOOOOOOO!

I really need some sleep!

**scarlet_woman156k** · 08-08-2002, 05:40 AM

servdragoon:
I understand what you are talking about completely...and there are really no "tricks" or "gimmicks" to get the mind to a natural state of the "Zone."

Basically, you need to figure out what the state of mind is when you are not in control or in the Zone. From the way it sounds, it doesn't seem like you are getting frustrated/angry/tired/etc., but more like the concentration is just simply leaving the bout and there is a drift in attention. So, if that is the case, you need to calmly refocus the attention. Trust me, it will leave again, it always does.

But that is where the *training* of the attention comes in. Once you see that it is happening, immediately refocus calmly (calmy is KEY) back to the bout. As you get better and better at realizing the attention has dropped and perfecting immediate, but calm, refocus, it will happen less and less...which will also cause a natural inclination for an immediate Zone-like state. It should and will become effortless.

I know my extended periods of the "Zone" have increased, but are not always there. However, I constantly refocus calmly everytime it falls away...and then it will reappear.

Hope this helps!

**John Nguyen** · 08-08-2002, 06:56 AM

CLEAR THE MECHANISM:::::

heh heh.

**achilleus** · 08-08-2002, 08:12 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by servdragoon:
Today while at the club, i felt there were times when i could control what i do and what my opponent does very well. When i felt like that things would work out the way i wanted. Low and behold it would not stay, i could actually feel it leave and the result would be me hesitating or making bad choices. I think that the feeling of being able to control the bout in the way you want to during a bout might be considered being in the zone. Anyone have any clues as to how to stay there?<hr /></blockquote>There are numerous books written on the subject of staying how to achieve the zone state of mind in sports. For me however, I find studying zen more useful in helping me achieve such a state of mind.

**jspierre** · 08-08-2002, 08:28 AM

Any zen book recommendations, achilleus?

**servdragoon** · 08-08-2002, 10:27 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by scarlet_woman156k:
servdragoon:
I understand what you are talking about completely...and there are really no "tricks" or "gimmicks" to get the mind to a natural state of the "Zone."

Basically, you need to figure out what the state of mind is when you are not in control or in the Zone. From the way it sounds, it doesn't seem like you are getting frustrated/angry/tired/etc., but more like the concentration is just simply leaving the bout and there is a drift in attention. So, if that is the case, you need to calmly refocus the attention. Trust me, it will leave again, it always does.

But that is where the *training* of the attention comes in. Once you see that it is happening, immediately refocus calmly (calmy is KEY) back to the bout. As you get better and better at realizing the attention has dropped and perfecting immediate, but calm, refocus, it will happen less and less...which will also cause a natural inclination for an immediate Zone-like state. It should and will become effortless.

I know my extended periods of the "Zone" have increased, but are not always there. However, I constantly refocus calmly everytime it falls away...and then it will reappear.

Hope this helps!

<hr /></blockquote>Thanks scarletwoman, immediatly refocusing CALMLY makes definite sense. It will be the first thing i try once i get in the zone and then lose it, next time i go ot the club.

**servdragoon** · 08-08-2002, 10:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by achilleus:
There are numerous books written on the subject of staying how to achieve the zone state of mind in sports. For me however, I find studying zen more useful in helping me achieve such a state of mind.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>How does zen do this? Ive heard of zen but never really studied it.

**veeco** · 08-08-2002, 01:18 PM

To help keep your mental integrity, some institutions may help.

Beware of the men with the white blouses, those who come out of cars with rotating lights.

**achilleus** · 08-08-2002, 02:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jspierre:
Any zen book recommendations, achilleus?<hr /></blockquote>'Zen in the Martial Arts', by Joe Hyams is a great introductory book.

And one that is easily applicable to fencing,
'The Tao of Jeet Kune Do', by Bruce Lee.
Obviously much of that book is devoted towards technique, but the sections devoted towards attitude and mindset are succinct and very useful.

**servdragoon** · 08-08-2002, 03:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by veeco:
To help keep your mental integrity, some institutions may help.

Beware of the men with the white blouses, those who come out of cars with rotating lights.<hr /></blockquote>Hehehe, you sound like you speak from experience. Ill definitely make sure to stay away from them.

**Inquartata** · 08-08-2002, 06:07 PM

The person who figures out a "trick" for getting people into "the zone" consistently will make a fortune.

I have found that, paradoxically, it comes most often when I RELAX and when for whatever reason I am overcome with an I-don't-really-give-a-s*** attitude. But even that isn't reliable.

**MikeHarm** · 08-08-2002, 07:21 PM

I recommend reading the book Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield, I found that helpful for learning about this subject.

Mo · 08-08-2002, 07:36 PM

I recommend years of good practice. It takes a long time to get proficient at any sport. Fencing is so complicated it seems it would be on the high end of time required for learning.
You need an arsenal of moves and time to get used to using them so you can call them up FAST when fencing.
Being prepared will keep you in the zone. Practice young person PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!

**D'Artagnan1673** · 08-09-2002, 05:55 AM

John kinda beat me to the punch with the clear the mechanism line. For those of you who havent' seen For Love of the Game, he's refferring to when Keven Cosner says to himself "clear the mechanism" and everything but the batters box gets blurred and dulled out.

I've never been in the zone in fencing, but I have in tennis. I found that the trill of reading the Three Musketeers for the first time put me into a mental state in which I was almost unstopable. It was fantastic.

Thanks for bringing this up, I need to work more on this in competition. Truth of the matter, however, it takes a while to get in the zone and once you loose it, its back to the drawing board. Fencing is pretty quick in comparison to tennis.

**servdragoon** · 08-09-2002, 10:00 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
. Truth of the matter, however, it takes a while to get in the zone and once you loose it, its back to the drawing board. Fencing is pretty quick in comparison to tennis.<hr /></blockquote>I know what you mean, especially during competitions. 5 touch bouts end in the blink of an eye in sabre, and then once your done you have wait around for your name to be called again. These things make it a little difficult to stay in the zone. I think desire is a big factor, if you really desire to win and know you can win it makes it easier to get in the zone.

**D'Artagnan1673** · 08-09-2002, 10:26 AM

You hit it right on the button.... Desire.

Desire aids you a great deal to stay in the zone. It also helps to not allow yourself to be nervous or intimidated by your opponents.

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