"Full-time" athletic efforts vs. part-time jobs - Fencing.Net Discussion
topleft topright

Go Back   Fencing.Net Discussion > General Fencing > Fencing Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2005, 05:32 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Sciurus-Rex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,326
Sciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond repute
"Full-time" athletic efforts vs. part-time jobs

How many hours can an elite athlete afford to work during a week at a professional job (not his sport) and still make maintain his ability or improve?
Sciurus-Rex is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
And now for this message...
Go Green members don't see these ads.


Old 12-02-2005, 05:53 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Goofy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,384
Goofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond reputeGoofy has a reputation beyond repute
Of course, the main example of success in this situation would be Keeth Smart. He graduated from St John's in 2001, and then while working full-time for Verizon (40-45 hours per week) he managed to become #1 in the world rankings for Mens Sabre in 2003 and make the 2004 Olympic Team.
__________________
But those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.

Last edited by Goofy; 12-02-2005 at 05:57 PM.
Goofy is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 06:34 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
rcmatthews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,099
rcmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond reputercmatthews has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to rcmatthews
Wow, that makes it even more impressive. I didn;t know he held down a full time job at the same time.
__________________
Ich steige ab, Hab keine Zeit, Muss jetzt zu den anderen Pferden, Wollen auch geritten werden

C'est pas la chute, c'est l'atterrissage.
rcmatthews is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2005, 06:42 PM   #4
Scavenger
 
Peach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,519
Peach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond reputePeach has a reputation beyond repute
I believe Keeth was given a leave of absence to train before the Olympics.
__________________

I never made a mistake in grammar but one in my life and as soon as I done it I seen it. -- Carl Sandburg
Peach is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 06:46 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 134
jrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciurus-Rex
How many hours can an elite athlete afford to work during a week at a professional job (not his sport) and still make maintain his ability or improve?
The problem with answering this question is that there is no baseline for comparing different athletes. As there is no professional fencing allowing for a focused, full time training and performance career over a period of years, there is no way to answer this with any authority.
As things are now, the only answer for top athletes is to devote as much time and energy possible while making a living doing something else. Which generally means no life outside of fencing and work. It kind of blows, but there it is.
__________________
Passion is to be encouraged. Rudeness is unacceptable.
------------------------------------------------------
Coming to California? Visit us at Fresno Fencing Academy where we welcome all Recreational Fencers and Competitive Fencers at our fencing club with Fencing Lessons in Foil, Sabre, and Epee.
jrgunn is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 08:25 PM   #6
Mo
Senior Member
 
Mo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,478
Mo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond reputeMo has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgunn
As things are now, the only answer for top athletes is to devote as much time and energy possible while making a living doing something else. Which generally means no life outside of fencing and work. It kind of blows, but there it is.
Actually most European countries train their senior athletes full time and pay them.
China does too. The Chinese have housing and salaries and they get a bunch of money if they will. Tan Xue probably got 100,000 for winning her silver in the Olympics.
Fencing in the US is not considered a job.
Athletes in Europe get their education paid for, their training and are given a salary starting as young as 16. Most of the Senior Italian fencers are police.
Traditionally in the US sports are for amateurs except for football or basketball. Things seem to be changing though but not anywhere close to the way it is in other parts of the world.
__________________
A friend will bail you out of jail,
a true friend will help you hide the body...
: )
Mo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 08:41 PM   #7
Fencing Expert
 
dknj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 148
dknj has much to be proud ofdknj has much to be proud ofdknj has much to be proud ofdknj has much to be proud ofdknj has much to be proud ofdknj has much to be proud ofdknj has much to be proud ofdknj has much to be proud ofdknj has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to dknj
Actually some US fencers are getting salaries directly from the USOC, because of their individual/team results at the Olympics. However, don't get too excited, it's not that much money, but it's almost enough to live on.
dknj is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 09:46 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
D+F+P=Hadouken!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,467
D+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo
Actually most European countries train their senior athletes full time and pay them.
China does too. The Chinese have housing and salaries and they get a bunch of money if they will. Tan Xue probably got 100,000 for winning her silver in the Olympics.
Fencing in the US is not considered a job.
Athletes in Europe get their education paid for, their training and are given a salary starting as young as 16. Most of the Senior Italian fencers are police.
Traditionally in the US sports are for amateurs except for football or basketball. Things seem to be changing though but not anywhere close to the way it is in other parts of the world.
100k isnt nearly enough. I could earn 100k doing slave labor at a minimum wage and still not do the same amount of work that these great fencers do to get where they are. You've gotta do it for the love, cause the money aint worth it.
__________________
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
D+F+P=Hadouken! is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 09:47 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Army Fencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CC
Posts: 2,625
Army Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgunn
As there is no professional fencing allowing for a focused, full time training and performance career over a period of years, there is no way to answer this with any authority.
What are you talking about? We have a number of fencers here at the Olympic Training Center who do nothing but fence. Right now, it's me and Niul Manske, but soon we'll have Seth and Cody, too.
__________________
My name is Isaac Erbele, and I approve this message
Army Fencer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 09:50 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
glowstix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: calgary,ab,canada
Posts: 2,409
glowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army Fencer
What are you talking about? We have a number of fencers here at the Olympic Training Center who do nothing but fence. Right now, it's me and Niul Manske, but soon we'll have Seth and Cody, too.
dude, you really do nothing but fence??? what the heck is that?? heaven on earth?? lucky punk!! what about med school??
glowstix is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 10:02 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Army Fencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CC
Posts: 2,625
Army Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond repute
Med school's on hold until after the Olympic Games, but I'm working on getting into a clinic here in the area once a week.
__________________
My name is Isaac Erbele, and I approve this message
Army Fencer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 10:09 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
glowstix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: calgary,ab,canada
Posts: 2,409
glowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond reputeglowstix has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army Fencer
Med school's on hold until after the Olympic Games, but I'm working on getting into a clinic here in the area once a week.
how much med school do you have left anyway??
glowstix is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 11:06 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Army Fencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CC
Posts: 2,625
Army Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond repute
Technically, 2 years. But they may want me to take one more year, depending on how stupid I get out here as an athlete.
__________________
My name is Isaac Erbele, and I approve this message
Army Fencer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 11:46 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 134
jrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to beholdjrgunn is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army Fencer
Technically, 2 years. But they may want me to take one more year, depending on how stupid I get out here as an athlete.
O.k: Then your the man to ask about this question of full time training v.s. holding a job at the same time. What is the balance IYO? Care to share your experience?
__________________
Passion is to be encouraged. Rudeness is unacceptable.
------------------------------------------------------
Coming to California? Visit us at Fresno Fencing Academy where we welcome all Recreational Fencers and Competitive Fencers at our fencing club with Fencing Lessons in Foil, Sabre, and Epee.
jrgunn is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2005, 12:12 AM   #15
JEC
Senior Member
 
JEC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Texas
Posts: 2,829
JEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond reputeJEC has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army Fencer
Technically, 2 years. But they may want me to take one more year, depending on how stupid I get out here as an athlete.
Don't worry all third years are reaaaallly green when the start their clinical rotations. The best improve over the first two or three weeks, and the worst stay that way.... clueless. I think that getting older (being more mature) will help you more than an extra year.
Best regards,
A med school attending
__________________
Epee is the Sword.
JEC is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2005, 12:56 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Sciurus-Rex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,326
Sciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond reputeSciurus-Rex has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by glowstix
dude, you really do nothing but fence??? what the heck is that?? heaven on earth?? lucky punk!! what about med school??
that, and troll the Internet message boards for fencing chat.
Sciurus-Rex is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2005, 04:14 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Army Fencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CC
Posts: 2,625
Army Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgunn
O.k: Then your the man to ask about this question of full time training v.s. holding a job at the same time. What is the balance IYO? Care to share your experience?
I thought I was pretty clear. I don't hold down a regular job. Fencing is my job in the Army.

I left (took a break from) medical school because I knew that I couldn't do both at the same time. I tried and I was successful (top 8 back in April), but I knew that I couldn't keep it up.
__________________
My name is Isaac Erbele, and I approve this message
Army Fencer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2005, 04:17 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Army Fencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CC
Posts: 2,625
Army Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sciurus-Rex
that, and troll the Internet message boards for fencing chat.
I prefer the term "peruse."

Seriously though, my fencing.net consumption has decreased steadily since I've been here. I think it's because I don't have anything to procrastinate from other than the few books I'm reading.
__________________
My name is Isaac Erbele, and I approve this message
Army Fencer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2005, 04:22 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Army Fencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CC
Posts: 2,625
Army Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond reputeArmy Fencer has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEC
Don't worry all third years are reaaaallly green when the start their clinical rotations. The best improve over the first two or three weeks, and the worst stay that way.... clueless. I think that getting older (being more mature) will help you more than an extra year.
Best regards,
A med school attending
I think I will be much better prepared for medicine after this experience for precisely the reasons you suggest. That's one of the reasons I didn't feel too terrible about leaving, despite the inherent risk involved with the decision and the fact that I was leaving my friends.

I'm doing my best to prevent cluelessness, but I know it goes with the territory.
__________________
My name is Isaac Erbele, and I approve this message
Army Fencer is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2005, 05:10 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
whtouche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: North attleboro, MA
Posts: 1,787
whtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond reputewhtouche has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to whtouche
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army Fencer
I thought I was pretty clear. I don't hold down a regular job. Fencing is my job in the Army.

I left (took a break from) medical school because I knew that I couldn't do both at the same time. I tried and I was successful (top 8 back in April), but I knew that I couldn't keep it up.
It was very clear, to me at least. But you can still offer some insight, infact more so than most people. The question now becomes, given your training schedule right now and your performance / rate of improvement (given that such things are generally hard to quantify except in retrospect) do you think you would have any time to train as much as you do, and also hold down a part time job, and if so how often would you be able to work.
Conversely, do you think it would be viable for you to sacrifice some/any of your training time in order to hold down a part time job, and still maintain an approximate level of conditioning and ability? This question is important to people who want to train as much as possible but aren't free to do so professionally.
__________________
"Their interpretation is, however, refuted most elegantly by your system of radioactive atom + amplifier + charge of gun powder + cat in a box"
-Albert Einstein, in a letter to Erwin Schrödinger
whtouche is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply