Fencing and burning fat

[ZEROFLASH]

Hi guys,

have any fencers here who fence 3-5 times a week lost any weight? I fence 5 times a week. On average I fence for 2 hours at a time and I take just short breaks in between bouts. But it doesn't seem like I havelost much fat. I am also on a diet of about 2000 calories a day. I am thinking either its because I eat to much carbs through out the day (I am Asian so a lot of rice and noodles) or because fencing is anaerobic so therfore when I'am fencing I am burning all glucose instead of fat.

anyone have any comments?

thanks

[servdragoon]

i havnt lost any wieght since fencing. In fact ive gained. Not much though, five pounds. i need a little more meat on my bones anyway, so its been good for me. I think the five pounds is because ive taken a liking to burgers lately.
I pretty much fence three tmes a week too, for 2-3 hours, sometimes more. ok, this burger talk is makin me hungry, gonna get a burger.

<small>[ 08-08-2002, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: servdragoon ]</small>

[Inquartata]

Depends on the intensity with which you fence and on whether your current caloric intake is at equilibrium, that is calories in=calories out for your present weight. Also on how much additional exercise you get in an average day.

I do lose weight after every practice, but it's water loss---it doesn't stay gone. ( That's OK as I'm pretty lean as it is. )

The only reliable way to lose weight is to expend more calories than you take in. Diet matters in that respect only in that fat has more calories than equivalent carbs or proteins. If your current diet gives you 200 calories it probably doesn't matter weight-wise how you get them ( health-wise is another story ). 2000 calories a day should be equilibrium for a 133 lb. person. I used to know how many calories an hour fencing burned, approximately, but alas I've forgotten...

[John Nguyen]

Diet (as in eating habits not the reduction of food)

+

Exercise

- weight loss.

When I went away to college I was 188lbs, a rather chunky freshmen male at the height of 5' 6" (and 1/4th, which apparantly to Army physicals is an important 1/4th)

Anyways, after waking up for PT in the morning around 5:30 =&gt; 7, and then fencing twice a week for 3hours each, I went to 166lbs by March.

So, ya see, its ALOT of factors. For me, I reduced how much I ate because, I used to eat three meals a day, mainly meats, andt then I would sit on my arsch!

Now, during the school year, I eat 2meals aday (part of my college meal plan), and usually I will eat Carbos 48hours before PT in the morning (which took place Mon, Wed, Fri) On my off days I would eat something that contained protien, to help develop my muscle mass.

After losing 22lbs, I was slightly worried when I started to gain 10lbs back. But when I was taped (embarassing little ordeal, any cadet who didn't make height and weight standards, hat to go to the fat line to get taped for fact composition)...

Well, I learned that I was gaining muscle mass, which was cool.

moral of this never ending story is that it takes a while to notice a difference. I was able to be blessed with a reasonable change in a good amount of time, but several factors included diet, exercise, and will to do it as well. Alot of me losing the weight dealt with problems I had with superficiality (where else would I get that idea from, but chicks in high school who demanded that! ERRRR!!!!!)

Losing the weight was fine, but thinking bout it too much also could have lead to something more serious, not saying it would, but it could.

But again, losing weight and burning fat are two different things, they are correlated, but dont be surprised if you tend to look more buff, but put on a few pounds in the right places from fencing. I came back home for the summer, and supposedly I looked nothing like the chunky fellow which left my high school the year before. The only true way to monitor is by doing skinfold caliper tests (tapings, or said form of) This can be done easily, and sometimes just at a regular check-up.

hopefully I have helped with my lil "Jared Subway diet thing!" heh heh!

John

p.s. Another interesting fact is the correlation between "Good home cooking" and weight gain. Everytime I came home I gained 10lbs from the stuff, but LOST it within a week when I got back. Wierd, but heh, no complaints!

[servdragoon]

hi john,
What college made you do PT at 5:30 in the morning? That must have been great.

[John Nguyen]

Im a Cadet at James Madison University's Duke Batallion (I know that might be spelled wrong)

Army ROTC (Hooah!)

PT was fun for the first few weeks but then it became crappy, consequently, if I stopped going for a week, I would tend to "feel" the difference with my fencing.

PT usually consited of Situp workout, pushup workout, and a Run then a game.

On certain FUN days, the soccer game was cancelled, and we had to run a 5miler IN FORMATION. Not a fun thing when you are one of the slower people, and they ask you to lead, but it definately helps you get faster because you dont want to let others down.

[Zelda]

I have a yo yo weight problem. I havent fenced for about 2 months (thesis, apathy and injury not in that order). But when I fence and do gym work I lose 1-2 KG's and then put about the same on in muscle. When I dont fence, my body shape changes (in a good way) but I still put on weight as I generally up my gym sessions. FYI I'm 5'5.5" and weight 66kg's. According to those silly scales that do your height wiehgt measue I should be 58kg's but I dont have any obvious fat on me so I dont care!!! It all depends what you eat though. I eat alot of salad and white meats.

[Peach]

You'd probably be underweight at 58 kg. I weighed about that (I'm your height) when I was training for a marathon once and people kept asking me if I were ill. The height-weight charts are goofy, especially if you're talking about an athlete.

Not to mention that the older I get, the more drawn and haggard I look if my weight goes down--a consolation for my present excess mass! &lt;g&gt; Right now I'm in fantastic shape and about 4 kg more than I'd like to be, which is about 10 kg more than the weight/height charts would have me be.

I don't lose weight from fencing. It's too stop-and-start. If I want to burn calories, I do aerobic training. If I want to lose fat and have a higher metabolism, I weight train. If I want to lose weight, I have to restrict my calorie intake along with all that.

That has gotten harder as I've aged. Used to be I could eat anything I wanted if I were exercising; now I really have to cut down. And young men can eat so much! I swear they give off cloud calories into the air, which go directly to the bodies of any women in the vicinity.

[Zelda]

I know I''d be underweight at 58. I'd personally like to weight about 60 but I can live with 66. BMI is a better indicator then height weight charts anyway.

[JEC]

Zelda,
BMI is just a calculation based on your weight and height. In general, we use to say that over 30 is obese, 25-29 is overweight and under 25 is normal. However, for women, the risk for cardiovascular disease and diabetes begin to increase already by a BMI of 23. A weight chart is based in the 50 percentile, so if your bone frame (hips and shoulders) is larger than the average, your optimal expected weight would also be larger than the average.

[Zelda]

Funny I was thinking of those pinch test things...they aint BMI's??

[JEC]

No. I think that what you are referring to is a measurement of the subcutaneous thickness in the arm or leg, which somewhat directly correlates with the fat percentage. BMI means Body Mass Index. Do a google search and you would find tables.

[HilandDoug]

well, I've lost 10 lbs since rehearsal began for the 3 Musketeers (I'm playing Athos), just from rehearsing our stage combat! Our schedule is pretty busy, with rehearsal from 6-10pm Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday, and 10am-4pm Saturdays (sometimes 6 or 8pm, depending on how well rehearsal goes), and then some Thursdays and most Sundays I've been fencing sabre and foil with a good friend.

The brother of a fencing friend dropped about 20 lbs when he started fencing. He took to it like a fish to water, fencing about 4 days a week. It also kept him from snacking in the evening, so that helped. As a matter of fact, I believe his sister lost weight as well.

[MattyCam]

I know that when I fence hard for 1 week and can expect to lose 5 pounds. It's mostly water weight, but very noticeable. I fence foil and eat sorta healthy, but healthier when tournaments are close--month away. It's my 'getting in shape' rutine. I don't do a whole lot of cross-training and lose weight easily with fencing.

Gaining weight isn't a bad thing. Everyeone knows muscle is heavier than fat. You're probably gaining muscle and getting heavier. But, that's fine. Strong fencers and good fencers.

You can shed the pounds by doing aerobic stuff. Fencing is very aerobic and anaerobic. It is very unique in that regard. There are many different footwork exercises that focus on aerobic workouts.

If you're one of those big epee people who don't do anything and wonder why after fencing for 2 hours a day for week you don't lose any weight, it's because you need to work.

Epee fencers, especially, are more aerobic than sabre and foil. There is a lot of "down time" in an epee bout. Sabre fencing is dependent on time and requiring the fencer to fence hard. The intensity from touch to touch in sabre is a good example of anaerobic.

Foil gets the best of both worlds. This just reinforces even more that foil is the best and sabre is a close second and epee should be completely eliminated. Ahh...tangents...

Anyways, all the top fencers are lean. I can't think of one fencer on top of US standings who has, you know, a little extra love. It's because they train and work hard. Results are there. You just need to work.

-_Matt

[135711]

of course i have comments. here they are.

Topic: Fat vs Protein [muscle]
since you've gained weight as you fence, you may be aware that some of that gain is new muscle, or protein, which is a denser fiber than is fat. that will bring you weight up, but you may not be 'fat'. There's only one way of telling for sure and that's having your body fat checked. it takes a second in a health screening facility. I think that normal ranges will be explained to you, and then you can compare your % with the range. If you over the range, then you might consider talking with a nutritionist. (i'm a nutritionist by the way- BS and MS in Foods and Nutrition, but 1985 is graduating year).
Best off the cuff advise to keep body fat down and weight to the normal range. After fencing, rest a little to let your resting glucose levels return to the norm, let your pulse rate go back to resting level, while you might sip on some juice. There's a 'false' appitite trigger that goes off after a person exercises. We get fooled into thinking we need more fuel, but we really don't.

[135711]

Best Diet from American Dietetic Association:
<a href="http://www.eatright.org" target="_blank">www.eatright.org</a>

3/4 of meal should come from complex carbohydrates. You want more nutrient dense foods, that is foods that have more nutrition as a value than calories. My favorites:
Broccoli: fiber, Vitamin A, Calcium, Vit C (if raw).

Best Meal: Salads for Dinner, include: lettuce (vit K) tomatoe (vit A), cucumber (trace minerals), tofu (protein), shredded carrot (vit A), a few grapes, low calorie dressing. Drink lemonade with. Served with dinner roll.

You don't really 'burn' fat, as in the grapefruit diets. What happens is that fat is transformed into muscle protein, over a period of time.

[JEC]

In the great majority of cases, weight gain is a simple mismatch between eating more calories than consuming energy. Excess in energy is mostly stored as fat, but there are other molecules (i.e.: glycogen, etc).
Fencers may have intermittently "muscle building" cycles during intense training for competitions. After a while, one becomes accustomed to the high calorie diet needed during the intense training and/or competition. What most people then do is to continue eating the same amount "AFTER" the competition when one no longer is consuming that amount of energy, and consequently gaining some weight.
Thus, one regains the weight lost when the intensive cycle began.

<small>[ 08-08-2002, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: JEC ]</small>

[135711]

exactly. that's the deal.

[three_hundred_fifty_five]

To ZERO FLASH,
To lose weight, in general, 1. you can either take in less calories than you are burning, 2. take in the same calories and burn more through more exercise, or 3. you can take in less calories and exercise more. Basically, you want the body to start burning fat calories. Your body doesn't do that until the current stores of energy are depleted.
It's okay to eat carbs. I don't like the Atkins Diet idea of taking in less carbs and more protein. Because once you get off the diet, you will most likely gain weight. The other thing is that the Atkins diet doesn't follow the food pyramid of nutrition where you should take in bread, rice, pasta as the base of your diet. The Atkins Diet does work if you follow it strictly, I'm not discrediting that. But, you can lose weight without it or any fad diet. As a note, I have lost weight on a diet high in carbs. The one thing that I went through was that I was tired more often. Getting more sleep solved that and I still maintained the same exercise routines and level of intensity. This is one of the things that the Atkins Diet heralds, you don't get tired while on the diet.

To Zelda,
Those pinch things are to measure body fat percentage. It's not totally accurate but it's not to bad considering the cost.

To 135711,
I eat plain toast, no butter.

[Peach]

I discussed this with my mother. She said she went on the Atkins diet, and while it was very effective, she was exhausted all the time. When she had her first piece of bread, she got all her energy back.

I've lost weight different ways, and kept it off for years. When I get stressed out or can't exercise, I gain it back (like last year). Basically, as others have said, it's a matter of burning more calories than you take in.