Which foil/sabre plug/socket do you prefer?

[larkmaj]

The poll concerns which style of plug/socket you prefer to use in terms of maintenence, reliability... whatever.

Personally I prefer the Negrini style. A minimum of movable parts, less things lost, a definite plus over 2-prong. And it is extremely reliable as far as staying in the socket, a definite advantage over LP style bayonet. Another plus is that it is uncommon, while this makes it more expensive and harder to find, it also means that less people have it so less of a chance somebody would pick up your bodycord/weapon and think it was theirs.

[Purple Fencer]

The one problem I see with the Italian bayonet design (Negrini, Carmimari, Schermasport, or even Nova Scherma) is it still has a moving part that can break....the spring under the contact plate.

They ARE superior to the LP style in one big way....nice metal casing that can;t wear out like the plastic ones can. Also the connection looks like it would be more reliable, but I don;t have the experience with the cord to say for sure...aside form you, the only person I know on Fnet who uses one is Brad Baker...don't remember which brand he uses, tho.

For me, tho, I prefer my 2 pin....no moving parts to wear out at all (not counting the retaining clip, since that's not part of hte circuit)....'course, all the current 2 pin designs still have downsides, which I am attempting to address.

[mynameismudd]

Recently switched to 2 prong. I got tired of the screw on the bayonet coming loose and spewing parts everywhere. Also, if the socket gets bent at all it seems to not hold the bayonet in very well and got tired of it popping out every other point.

[HDG]

LP bayonet all the way baby, but never, never a knock-off. I've never had an LP plug come out of an LP socket, but the problem is endemic to the BG bayonets used by some of my clubmates. I wound up giving one kid a spare socket and old bodycord just to put an end to the bout interruptions.

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by mynameismudd

Recently switched to 2 prong. I got tired of the screw on the bayonet coming loose and spewing parts everywhere. Also, if the socket gets bent at all it seems to not hold the bayonet in very well and got tired of it popping out every other point.

just make sure the screw stays tight on the retaining clip, otherwise you'll have a problem

Originally Posted by HDG

LP bayonet all the way baby, but never, never a knock-off. I've never had an LP plug come out of an LP socket, but the problem is endemic to the BG bayonets used by some of my clubmates. I wound up giving one kid a spare socket and old bodycord just to put an end to the bout interruptions.

Oh definately the best LP style is the LP. they're the only ones that do it right. The chinese always mess it up.

[CvilleFencer]

This poll is flawed. I prefer to use an LP epee cord and Uhlmann epee socket on both my epee's and foils. Having said that I only have one of these modified cords, and since I recently loaned them out for a student at a tourney both of my foils have Uhlmann two prongs on them at the moment, but that is not what I prefer.

Why go with the epee socket/cord if you are not an epee fencer who needs to switch back and forth? Well, there are no moving parts in this design, the retaining clip is integral with the socket and less likely to wear out or be lost and the LP epee cords are very long lived and not subject to the same stress on the cord at the weapon end plug that is so problimatic in the Negrinni/Uhlmann/Allstar 2 prong designs. It seems to work very well, at least for me since I switch between foil and epee so often at club practice. If I ever start fencing foil again in competition this is the setup that I would use as I only have to carry a couple of cords for the weekend, it cuts down on equipment costs and saves time at weapons check.

[KD5MDK]

2 prong. Dead simple to work with, no problems here. Also, the ability to loan/borrow from club mates is something I value.

[Smyles]

A few months ago I switched all of my weapons sockets to 3-pin (I fence all 3 weapons). Best move I've ever made, the three pin sockets are way more secure (when was the last time you saw a three pin plug pop out of it's socket!?! Also it means that I only need to have 2 wires in my bag (main one and spare) instead of 4. The only real downside is that it looks kinda bulky, but since fencing with it I've found that it doesn't get in the way at all.

I've been wondering if anyone else has followed the same approach?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Smyles

A few months ago I switched all of my weapons sockets to 3-pin (I fence all 3 weapons). Best move I've ever made, the three pin sockets are way more secure (when was the last time you saw a three pin plug pop out of it's socket!?! Also it means that I only need to have 2 wires in my bag (main one and spare) instead of 4. The only real downside is that it looks kinda bulky, but since fencing with it I've found that it doesn't get in the way at all.

I've been wondering if anyone else has followed the same approach?

Uhhhh....yyyyyeeeeah....step away from the Guiness, please...

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Smyles

A few months ago I switched all of my weapons sockets to 3-pin (I fence all 3 weapons). Best move I've ever made, the three pin sockets are way more secure (when was the last time you saw a three pin plug pop out of it's socket!?! Also it means that I only need to have 2 wires in my bag (main one and spare) instead of 4. The only real downside is that it looks kinda bulky, but since fencing with it I've found that it doesn't get in the way at all.

I've been wondering if anyone else has followed the same approach?

Any you attach your universal body cords to your lame how?

[Smyles]

Honestly, it's brilliant! I'll take a picture and post it later on this evening

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Any you attach your universal body cords to your lame how?

Could easily run 2 wires from the A pin on one end. Standard epee cord, plus a line to an alligator clip (attach to jacket in epee).

While in Albequerque I was in a conversation with a fellow coach who mentioned someone in his area (Chicago) who had converted to all 3-pring solutions. Hadn't paid enough attention to it to be able to answer any questions (including what the fencer did with the alligator in epee), but it's not unheard-of.

For reference I use the Negrini italian-bayonet sockets and plugs, but not cords. I bought the plugs separately and retro-fitted some other cords I had. One issue is that the Negrini system uses solder connections for the plugs to the wires. I'm an inpatient solderer, so I occasionally need to go back and make repairs (I have a mediocre iron and I'm unwilling to wait long enough for the parts to get sufficiently warm when just heating the solder gets me something that works in a few seconds -- at least until the cold join breaks).

-B

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Could easily run 2 wires from the A pin on one end. Standard epee cord, plus a line to an alligator clip (attach to jacket in epee).

While in Albequerque I was in a conversation with a fellow coach who mentioned someone in his area (Chicago) who had converted to all 3-pring solutions. Hadn't paid enough attention to it to be able to answer any questions (including what the fencer did with the alligator in epee), but it's not unheard-of.

I made something like that once. I made a 3 weapon bodycord which was basically and epee cord with an alligator clip coming out of one end and a short wire connected to a foil/sabre plug on the other. I used it for one competition and several club days but since the only materials I had to work with at the time were the apropriate screwdrivers, 2 foil wires, a pair of scissors, and duct tape, it was very shoddy and died. It was nice however not needing to be double corded or worry about which one you were plugging into the reel though.

Not sure how legal it is...

[HDG]

Originally Posted by larkmaj

Not sure how legal it is...

That's the interesting question: is the anything in m.29 that would disallow this kind of setup?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by HDG

That's the interesting question: is the anything in m.29 that would disallow this kind of setup?

The pertinent part of M.29

"At the end nearest the foil, inside the guard, any method of attachment is allowed but the method adopted must always conform to the
specification laid down in Article m.5."

Pertinent part of M.5 (m.5.3)

"3 . Any system of attachment inside the guard is allowed, provided that it conforms to the following requirements.
— It must be easy to detach or attach the bodycord.
— It must be possible to check it by a simple method such as using a penknife or a coin.
— It must be easy to apply the pointe d’arrêt of the opponent’s weapon to the ground circuit connected to the blade.
— It must have a security device which makes it impossible for the contact to be broken during the bout.
— It must ensure the complete connection of the electric wires; it must be impossible for even a momentary break of contact to
occur while the plugs are connected.
— It must not include any part which allows electrical contact to be made between the plug sockets."

The issue is not the legality of the connection....it's HOW the connection works.

In epee, the wires are connected to the A and B sockets, with C being the ground...all three connections being within the guard connector

In foil and sabre, that's not the case. Inside the guard you have a connection with B (the wire) anc C (the ground).....but A is connected to the lame, NOT within the guard.

Given that the circuit operation is different between foil/sabre and epee i don;t see how you could make all three work with the same socket and body cord without modifications

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Given that the circuit operation is different between foil/sabre and epee i don;t see how you could make all three work with the same socket and body cord without modifications

Simply fit a three-prong (epee) socket in place of a two-prong or bayonet foil socket and connect the wire to the "B" socket for foil or short the "B" and "C" sockets together for saber. The "C" socket is already shorted to the guard via the bracket. The "A" socket just keeps you from plugging in the body cord the wrong way.

At the other end of the body cord (where it plugs into the reel) there will be two wires connected to the "A" pin. One runs forward to the other end of the body cord, where it is used for epee. The other runs seperately to the clip for the lame. When fencing epee, the clip is simply placed somewhere out of the way where it cannot be used to create a short with either the "B" or "C" line (another potential sweat short).

The biggest problem might be making sure that the socket doesn't extend beyond the edge of the guard. And if someone were to hit the "A" socket in foil or saber then the scoring machine would register a valid touch.

[KD5MDK]

I'd be concerned having an a-line floating around somewhere where it might be brought in contact with the b-line and cause a light.

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I'd be concerned having an a-line floating around somewhere where it might be brought in contact with the b-line and cause a light.

Just attach the clip to the body of the plug when you are not fencing with a lame. No worries or problems there. Even if it did pop off, what's it going to come in contact with?

I use the extra large Vniti guards and have a pretty good bend to my foil tangs. No problems with the fit of a 3 pin socket inside my bell. If you use a larger guard no worries about the socket sticking out. If you take a really crazy bend to your tang or use a smaller guard, just put the plug on the other side from "normal".

Also someone said something along the lines of it may be possible to hit the socket connector head with the cord plugged in an register a touch. This is not really possible. Try it and you will see what I mean. If you are that concerned about it go around the outside of the socket plugs with some clear nail polish or even a strip of fencing tape, but it is not really an issue...

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

The pertinent part of M.29 blah blah blah...

there is nothing in these rules that would indicate that my homemade bodycord is illegal.