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BoutAfrica · 11-27-2005, 07:38 AM

Has any one ever heard of Japanese blades or used them? I have a friend in Japan who uses them and says that they are very cheap. I'm not sure about the quality though. Any one know anything about them?

Zilverzmurfen · 11-27-2005, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoutAfrica

Has any one ever heard of Japanese blades or used them?

I've never heard of Japanese blades, which, thinking of it is a bit strange considering Japans long history in swordmaking!

Perhaps the design of the modern foil, épée and sabre is just too far from the original japanese swords and therefore not a strong business..?

I'd be interested in hearing more about them too.

BoutAfrica · 11-27-2005, 12:14 PM

I think they only sell in Japan. Grasshopper, any idea?

Here is the website If you can understand it:http://www.tf-fencing.co.jp/

Apparently they are Euro 1;00 each in Japan and commonly used.

kmak_577 · 11-27-2005, 01:03 PM

I wouldnt bother with Japanese blades , i dont think it is a good idea because they might not be up to the same standard as other, better known blades . And if they are of lower quality then they are more likely to endanger u and other fencers . Well thats my thinking anyway , i might be mistaken though

Kmak_577

BoutAfrica · 11-27-2005, 01:58 PM

Anything with an FIE stamp on it is safe. These are marrenging blades we are talking about here. I want to hear first hand from some one who has used them.

Zilverzmurfen · 11-27-2005, 02:05 PM

Are you serious, maraging blades for € 1???
That's less than the cost of the wire...

Still have never seen or heard of them though, sorry!

Purple Fencer · 11-27-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoutAfrica

Anything with an FIE stamp on it is safe. These are marrenging blades we are talking about here. I want to hear first hand from some one who has used them.

I'd need to see a picture of the blade stamp...but I doubt it's a Japanese made FIE...there are no Japanese forges that I know of...the closest would be JL in China, which is NOT Japan.

According to the list from teh FIE of Sept. 19, 2005, teh FIE blades are:

Leon Paul (f/e) England
France Lames (f/e) France (note that FL DID put out faked FIE blades, but they DID also put out legitimate FIE blades)
Blaise Freres (f/e) France
Lammet (f/e) Russia
Vniti (f/e) Russia
Allstar/Uhlmann (f/e) Germany
Weyersberg Kirschbaum (f/e) Germany
StM (f/e) Russia
Prieur (f/e) France
Metal West (e) Russia?? Someone check me on this one
Chevalier D'Auvergne (f/e) France
Blue Gauntlet (f) China (yeah....this surprised me as well)

You MIGHT be referring to the BG blade, but I;d have to see the stamp. I HIGHLY douts anyone can sell an FIE blade for 1 Euro.

Post or send me a picture.

CvilleFencer · 11-27-2005, 07:39 PM

Looking around at the site, they seem to mostly resale Allstar and Adidas gear. Even their club/store patchs are way more than 1 euro however. Most of the foil/epee blades I could make out were in the 100,000-150,000 yen range, which would be a bit more than you would pay from Blade in the US. I think you have been given faulty information. Also their is no way to sell an FIE blade for a buck. The Maraging steel stock, before it is forged, would cost about that and I think the FIE gets something for the use of their logo...

It is possible that their is some sort of subsidy for elite level fencers to help offset the cost of their gear, but again I doubt it and it would not be open to the public. If they are selling blades for even a few thousand Yen, and I did not see any on the site, they would most likely be Chinese made blades and not FIE. I doubt they would bother to private label and carry StM blades if they are also carring Allstar blades since that is what Allstar does for their mid range and they would be cannabilizing their own high dollar sales. StM are the cheapest blades of any quality I know off. Even if you buy direct from StM in bulk, you are going to be paying 10-12 euros for their electric foil blades, before shipping/customs. If it sounds to good to be true, it usually is.

Mizore · 11-27-2005, 08:14 PM

I live in Tokyo and have been to both Fencing shops. I can assure you that nothing at either Tokyo fencing shop is cheap by any stretch of the imagination despite decent dollar to yen rates. Trust me, you can find cheaper blades almost anywhere on earth. If you find a cheap price here, it is most likely not reliable.

There are no blades for 1 Euro. The cheapest blades in Tokyo are non-FIE wired at JPY4,600 for something they call ウクライナ Fokurain or Falkline and FIE starts in at JPY11,900 or about $100 USD for a France Lame with basic French tip.

As far as I know no blades are manufactured in Japan at present. The shops sell Allstar, France Lame, Leon Paul, PBT and blade called Japan BF which is probably a standard BF blade packaged for Japan.

About 1/2 of the blades you see in play in clubs are purchased abroad. It is common for fencers to go in on foreign orders or to have blades brought in when someone travels to Europe or the US. I'm compiling an order for our club now to bring back after my holiday trip to the US.

Prices on fencing gear in Japan is as much at 100% higher than abroad. Take a closer look at that sight and you will see even basic nylon uniforms can cost as much at $250USD. And FIE kit is double the prices even available in the US.

I wish I could say that things are cheap here. But sadly Japan is one of the most expensive places in the world. I can confidently say that you are better off ordering from Europe or the US.

Purple Fencer · 11-27-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

Even if you buy direct from StM in bulk, you are going to be paying 10-12 euros for their electric foil blades, before shipping/customs.

For the non-FIE's that's pretty close...for FIE blades it's between $35 and $43 per blade (depending on the size of the order)

Bored Fencer · 11-28-2005, 03:36 PM

I bought one for the equivalent of €30. Lasted about an hour of a training session before it snapped and I very nearly killed my coach with it. Needless to say I never fenced with anything other than a maraging blade since.

Mizore · 11-28-2005, 09:09 PM

Still think it is unlikely that there are Japanese blades out there. Maybe blades made for Japan like the BF Japan blades. And maybe blades purchased from Japan. But have not heard of a single Japanese made blade. Fencing is just not that strong here to warrant having a forge here.

Plus, if there were J-blades then everyone would have them. I also play darts and there are two Japanese darts manufactures DMC and Trinity. They are good quality, well made but about $200 a set. Double the equivalent European or UK darts. Yet nearly everyone I've met at darts has J-darts (and mind you it is popular with teens and 20's here so we are talking about a huge darts scene that is trendy and cool at present) because they are made in Japan and despite the cost. Some people will have mutiple models and sets.

Japanese sports participants tend to buy the best of the best from around the world no matter what the cost. And if a Japanese equivalent exists, it will be finely made, packaged and likely sell for even more since it is a home product and Japanese companies tend to apply a lot of pride to what they make. And customers will pay premium for the pride of Japanese products.

So it seems to me if J-Blades existed then the same would be true for fencing. The blades would be nice, would be common at clubs and there would be a lot of pride around their use. I sincerely think that anyone with a J-blade has likely got something not made in Japan or even misrepresented as Japanese.

Again at the clubs here you will see the same brands that you are used to in the US or Europe. Even Chinese blades are rare or non-existent here. FIE grade Allstar, Leon Paul and France Lame are much more common.

edwin012290 · 11-28-2005, 10:28 PM

i would only buy a katana or so from japanese forges. why bother when you have all these companies(LP, allstar, vniti, etc)?

KD5MDK · 11-28-2005, 11:25 PM

Is there anything particularly special about the BF Japan?

Purple Fencer · 11-29-2005, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Is there anything particularly special about the BF Japan?

Probably nothing more than them being BF blades stamped with something Japanese....again, there are no fencing forges in the Orient except for China. All of the other forges are in Europe, the UK, and the old USSR....there isn't even a forege in teh Americas.

Grasshopper · 11-29-2005, 01:54 AM

I believe there is a forge in Japan. The brand is called Japon and they come in both FIE and non-FIE makes. I ALWAYS buy the FIE Japon blades. They are rather stiff and take a beating before they break. I think in general they are heavier than Allstar or France Lam, but if you get a well-balanced one it is like magic. Price is about the same as in US and Canada.

Purple Fencer · 11-29-2005, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I believe there is a forge in Japan. The brand is called Japon and they come in both FIE and non-FIE makes. I ALWAYS buy the FIE Japon blades. They are rather stiff and take a beating before they break. I think in general they are heavier than Allstar or France Lam, but if you get a well-balanced one it is like magic. Price is about the same as in US and Canada.

Uhhhh.....no. See my prior post that listed the FIE blades...from the FIE itself.

If you have one of these "Japon" blades, please post a picture of the stamp at the shoulder....if it's an FIE, it'll have the name of the REAL maker in the shield....it ain't a forge in Japan...and if they're claiming it is, it's likely fraudulent (like Triplette's "FIE mask).

Further, Dan DeChaine went over all the known blade forges at Armorer's College (re FIE blades) and a forge in Japan did NOT come up.

Grasshopper · 11-29-2005, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Uhhhh.....no. See my prior post that listed the FIE blades...from the FIE itself.

If you have one of these "Japon" blades, please post a picture of the stamp at the shoulder....if it's an FIE, it'll have the name of the REAL maker in the shield....it ain't a forge in Japan...and if they're claiming it is, it's likely fraudulent (like Triplette's "FIE mask).

Further, Dan DeChaine went over all the known blade forges at Armorer's College (re FIE blades) and a forge in Japan did NOT come up.

I'll check it out the blade and let you know.

Grasshopper · 11-29-2005, 06:18 AM

I checked the blade. Don't have a dig camera to take photo, but let me describe:

On the shoulder there is a rectangular box with FIE carved in the bottom of it, and BF at the top, in a circle. Above that box (further down the blade), it says JAPON and above that 504, which I assume is the lot number. I have another one with 506 on it. No other mention of other maker, company, etc.

Insipiens · 11-29-2005, 06:54 AM

If it is stamped with BF it will be a BF (Blaise Freres) blade - forged presumably in France.