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Thread: Priority and the fleche

  1. #1
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    Priority and the fleche

    Just something I was wondering about. In foil if you fleche and miss on the initial action, that is before the back leg has crossed and then after 1 or more additional cross steps you and your opponent hit at the same time is it still your attack or has your opponent stop hit you in your preparation as the rules consider multiple cross steps to be a preparation? Is this the only occasion in foil when footwork has a direct effect on priority?

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    Senior Member rory's Avatar
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    Preparation. And yes I think it is.
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    Senior Member kalivor's Avatar
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    In foil if you fleche and miss on the initial action, that is before the back leg has crossed and then after 1 or more additional cross steps you and your opponent hit at the same time is it still your attack or has your opponent stop hit you in your preparation as the rules consider multiple cross steps to be a preparation?
    It would not be a stop hit, under any circumstances. A stop-hit is a counterattack that arrives before the final action of the attack. As the hits arrive together, this is not the case. So no stop-hit.

    Usually, I would expect this call to be "attack no. Counterattack touche, then the remise." The first attack, after all, misses.

    It's entirely possible from your description, however, that there isn't an immediate counter attack, and instead there's a "running attack" and a counter from the opponent. In this case, the running attack would get it. Crossing over repeatedly may be preparation, much as advancing properly with a bent arm would be, but if the attack isn't launched into that preparation, it hardly matters.

    A third possibility is that the opponent pulls distance, and starts forward making an attack while the "running attacker" is crossing over, then they both hit together. In this case, it's the opponent's attack, and the runner's counterattack.

    Multiple crossovers might be preparation, but that doesn't mean that what comes after the preparation (the final crossover, usually in the form of a fleche or lunge) isn't a valid attack. If the opponent waits until the preparation is over before trying to attack into it, they won't get the point.

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    Senior Member peet's Avatar
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    an observation

    I've never seen the "crossover = preparation" call in competition. Yeah, it's in the book, but I've never seen a ref tell a foilist that they were preparing simply because of that. They'd have to be preparing with the hand as well to get called in prep.

    That being said, the action you describe could be many things, depending on factors hard to comment on without being there (kalivor's suggestions are a good start on the possibilities though ).

    -p

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