Passivity

[Elemental]

I was directing a pool bout of epee (our pool had to self direct) on Friday night and the following situation came up.

At about the 1:40 minute mark the bout was tied at 4. I called "fence" and both fencers just stood there (one of them didn't stay en guarde). I told them that I called fence and that there are rules about passivity.

They told me that they were just going to wait for priority to be determined.

I couldn't remember what the rules are regarding passivity are but I knew that carding both fencers at 4/4 would be pointless.

I ended up telling them that I wasn't going to jump strait to passivity with over a minute left and that they needed to fence.

Any suggestions on how to handle a situation like this?

Can you jump straight to priority in a situation like that? If both fencers flat out refuse to fence do I just end the bout at 4/4?

[oiuyt]

I was directing a pool bout of epee (our pool had to self direct) on Friday night and the following situation came up.

At about the 1:40 minute mark the bout was tied at 4. I called "fence" and both fencers just stood there (one of them didn't stay en guarde). I told them that I called fence and that there are rules about passivity.

"Halt" "Passivity"

*flips coin*

Non-sudden-death minute (which, given a 4-4 score is also a sudden-death minute in this case).

Why WOULDN'T you envoke passivity? Passivity in the US does not include any cards, incidently.

-B

[Mr Epee]

Firstly, passivity undeservedly gets a bad rap.

Usually it involves both fencers stepping back and at least one of the fencers assuming a non fencing stance.

In the end, the call is at the discretion of the referee, but telling the fencers that you aren't going to call passivity is a little silly. When you see passivity it's pretty freakin' obvious. It doesn't (and shouldn't) get called too often in the US, because of some bizarre American work ethic, or general insecurity.

If the score is 4-4, it's one touch anyway... who cares if it's in regulation or in over time? Although, it's pretty funny that folks are reaching that deep in the tactics bag for a self directed Friday night house pool.

[Elemental]

If the score is 4-4, it's one touch anyway... who cares if it's in regulation or in over time? Although, it's pretty funny that folks are reaching that deep in the tactics bag for a self directed Friday night house pool.

My thoughts exactly. If it was a few seconds before the end of the first period of DE and both fencers were trying to concerve energy I could understand.

But with over a minute left?? It was only the 3rd or 4th pool bout at that...

[larkmaj]

They told me that they were just going to wait for priority to be determined.

If they're both waiting for priority then I don't see any problem going straight to the sudden-death since neither would object instead of just standing there for a minute and a half. You want things to keep moving in pools.

[Gav]

Take charge. If the fencers are refusing to fence then why wouldn't you invoke it? You don't even have to give a warning - just halt the bout announce the one minute break and if anyone gives you hassle ... penalise them accordingly.

If after the first minute of a bout they are refusing to fight then what the hell are they doing fencing? And seeing as this is a club fight .. wtf? If they are holding up a piste by refusing to fence then get them off the piste and get more interesting fencers on.