2008 Games in Beijing

[rusty epee]

Hi, all! Know I haven't been putzing around in here for a while, but glad to be back nonetheless (at least for a little while)...

Have to ask: what's your opinion on the IOC's decision to have the 2008 game sin Beijing? A repeat of the 1936 Games in Berlin? Write in and tell me!

Allez-y!

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Youth and enthusiam are no match for age and treachery....

[saberkid]

hmm, i dunno, but one thing i DO know is, im going to be fencing in the 2008 olympics for sure!


Chris

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Fence with the best die like the rest!

[rusty epee]

Ron: Interesting you should say that. My personal thought is that China would very much like to fill the void left by the Soviets when the Cold War collapsed.

[soos]

hmmm i feel like i wont watch friends at OG ! as i m from france, paris could have allow me to follow the whole olympics (foil ONLY haha )

nex time it will be close to me i ll be old, maybe dead ... ouiiiiiiiiiinnnnnn

[MikeHarm]

I think changing China by holding an olympics in their country is nonsense, its probably simply a matter of they came up with the best bribe for the committe making the decision this year.

Mike

[Cutter]

Mike, I happen to know someone on the selection committee for the Olympics and after the fiasco in Salt Lake, they have all been under the microscope. I don't believe they would repeat past mistakes. As for China the host, I am equally appalled they would select them based on their history of human rights. However, as has been pointed out over and over again, the Olympics are sport, not politics and one should not be affected by the other as hard as that is to separate. I believe China's purpose for wanting to host is based on their desire to show the world they are not as bad as their reputation reports. Therefore, unfortunately, it is likely that we will only get a one sided version (propaganda) of China as a whole and the real side will be barried by the government trying to "wag the dog" and convince the world that they are nothing like what we all know they are.

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Cutter
"It's just a flesh wound."

[its_me_mango]

i don't think its the same either, remember hitler was able to brainwash their "youth" into following their thinking, but china is a little different, the youth and young adults aren't so easily frightened. we need to show china we like them and want them to join us in a democractic society.

[edew]

Originally posted by Ron Antrim:
Rusty epee,
[...]They truly are a sleeping Dragon.
Have you read Tom Clancy's "THE BEAR AND THE DRAGON" ?

Er... that's Crouching Tiger, HIDDEN Dragon.
:-)

[Iwant2bafencer]

Hello everyone!! I'm back from vacation! All I can say is I don't think I want to sit in a car for a week!!
I really do not like what they are doing to Tibet!!! Although maybe they are just trying to say 'hey we aren't as bad as we seem, give us another change please.' I guess we should give them another chance. I agree on the Hitler thing, You can't really relate this one to the 1938. Also I agree with the brainwash thing. I dont think that the chinese get scared as easily as they did.
I haven't read the bear and the dragon but im going to try to read it when my friend is done with it. (I dont get very far with political and war books.) Since someone mentioned it, what did everyone think of the movie Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon?

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Life is like a straw it either blows or sucks.

[its_me_mango]

or in fencing....

"Ducking tiger"

[is there a term for anything we do that is hidden?]

further> the thing about china is that there are over a billion people living there, it's like, huge, big population, very big, not everyone there knows what the head man is thinking or wants, because they're really busy making things. the government doesn't represent the people yet, they cut out a man's tongue for practicing a harmless form of yoga called falun something or other. and i read the dali lama's story about his exit from snowy lands - it was totally remarkable and i am in total sympathy with the lama. but, the people are very suppressed they really can't breathe too good, but the government on the other hand is afraid of democracy because it allows decadent behaviors which increases crime and leads to the downfall of youth, but it seems the only way for people to be able to overcome this tremendous gap between the far right and far left, is to met together and often, and in time, maybe a few hundred years from now, or even a thousand years from now, we may see a blend of the two cultures, or at the very least the invention of another political theory that will allow for freedom and responsibilities - china is pretty moral, but then, they had t'ein t'ai in their history, and t'ein t'ai (also called chi-i) was a Buddha, which is tremendous good fortune, and they were able to run a huge entire country for a very long period of time on confuscious's theories, sort of like the greeks and plato. but it's ancient history, yet, there are some things that are very important to pass down. one thing that is interesting: in russia, the area of caucas and asia = caucasians. So, many caucasions possibly originated from the caucas region and blended a long time ago with the asians forming a completely different mix. Oh well, here we go again...
any thoughts on this? and then you have to read about the dynasties - the Ming being "enlightenment" and the decadence of those guys with the long emperor nails, then you have to read about Mao, he turned his head back and forth very slowly (hearsay of course) they say he was a genius, but he revolutionized the country due to impatience, he didn't try to market his ideas to the masses, and let them sort of absorb ideas at their own rate, allowing for an evolution.


I take it no one here has studied history or prehistory.....am i the only brain on the board?

[This message has been edited by its_me_mango (edited 07-17-2001).]

[MikeHarm]

I think the future of China is one large desert wasteland, and they're working hard to get there as quickly as they can.

Mike

[its_me_mango]

we know you're looking for a reaction mike, which is why, on the strip, you stick your arm out waiting for the beat! But, china is no-where near finished, what almost finished back in 1992 was Russia.

[Fencing Angel]

sorry to butt in here... but note in the message that you quoted.. "Tom Clancy" he is a writer.. and C.T.H.D is a movie.. that he didn't write for.... but he did write a book "the bear and the dragon." and i know someone who has it.. but yes, it can be confusted.. not to easily.. but it is possible...
Just thought i would strighten him out..

Back to the reguler programing...

Originally posted by edew:
Er... that's Crouching Tiger, HIDDEN Dragon.
:-)

[attila]

Interesting thread.

As a tourist who was at the 1980 Soviet Olympic Games, I would like to hope that as with the Soviet breakup, after a few years of foerign tourists, maybe China will go the same way. Nothing like having a bunch of Americans describing the joys of Disneyland to convert the commies.

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"Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine"

[edew]

Some points:

The '36 Olympics was awarded to Berlin in '31, before Hitler came into power. After he came into power, and seeing the Olympics in his backyard, he obviously took advantage of the choice to propagandize.

The situation with China is different (unless there is some new power/regime to take over the present government before 2008). China wants the Olympics to show the world that it's not a third-world country. In some sense, it's not. However, the human rights situation there is atrocious and having the Olympics there, I think, will be beneficial towards righting the wrongs. I don't think that by having the Olympics in China legitimizes the various sordid practices by the Chinese government.

On a more selfish note, the 2008 Games being in China and Dick Pound (from Canada) not being elected as the new head of the IOC suggests a very good possibility of the 2012 Olympics being in the US (2004 in Europe, 2008 in Asia, and without Dick Pound rooting for a Toronto 2012). The San Francisco Bay Area is one of the US cities to bid for the 2012. This bid is to the USOC (who then takes the winning bid and sends it to the IOC). SF has a pretty good bid package, noting that the facilities are pretty much there (except for the ultra-modern 30-strip fencing arena with seating for 2000 spectators for the finals strip...[ha, ha]). The other cities are Washington DC, NY area, and I think Dallas. DC would be awful, as would NY and Dallas. Thus it has to be the SF Bay Area. :-)

[Stryder]

Edew-
Wasn't Seattle bidding for 2012?

On China: I hope they don't try to limit press access. No I am not so shallow as to care more about TV coverage of the Games than about Human rights issues, but unrestricted press access will force China to clean up its act, at least temporarily, or risk some wanna-be Geraldo doing a story on the "Games of Shame" or something. Exposing sweat-shops or government corruption or 2nd children being killed.

Maybe putting China under the microscope for 21 days is just what its people need.

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www.geocities.com/strydermike

[Cutter]

I know Sacramento is also working feverishly to improve the highway system and hotel accomodations in prospect of the San Francisco bid for the Olympics. It would be obvious that being so close, Sacramento would likely get some of the venues as well. We are keeping our fingers crossed here and if we do get it, I will be at the forefront and yelling the loudest to get fencing as much coverage as we can.

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Cutter
"It's just a flesh wound."

[rusty epee]

Hmmm. Some food for thought on this thread. But, all in all, I would like to say this: I am not convinced that by holding the Games in Beijing we will, throughout the world, see a rapid change in their domestic policy. I think to expect that is a fallacy. I do believe, however, that China is opening the floodgates and we will see an upsurge in rebellion by its people. There's just no way to hide that many tourists from all over the world from your own country's population. I also predict we will see a huge upsurge of dissidents' arrests for crimes against the state -- it can be argued that this has already begun. China's leadership absolutely doesn't want any of its "radicals" parading the streets with company coming. As well, I really do believe we will see exactly what their government wants us to see. No way can we expect the freedom accorded us in other parts of the world to extend in China. No way.

And by the way, Mango: I think your history is a little fuzzy. Mao had nothing to do with letting his people "absorb at their own pace," that's true. Quite the contrary: if one didn't get with the program in a big hurry, one found oneself in a concentration camp, imprisoned or worse. The number of concealed deaths in China following his rise to power is enormous. China's millenia of isolationism, both under the emporers and the Communist regimes, has not served it entirely well either. But one must realize that for thousands of years, the Chinese held themselves superior to everyone else (evident in their language: their word for themselves can be roughly translated in its root to the word for human, while their word for foreigner equates to non-human); such an "evolution" into accepting the rest of the world as equal to themselves may very well take another couple thousand years. For bloody sure it won't happen overnight. What Mao did do, however, is bring at least a portion of his world kicking and screaming into the 20th century. For sure, the recent assimilation of Taiwan and Hong Kong into its sphere of influence will play a part; but just how much is the question.

[Banderole]

I believe that Seattle dropped its 2012 bid and that the SF Bay area bid will have fencing at the Moscone Center in San Francisco. In any case, the timetable is that the final US bid will be announced in 2002 with the overall 2012 bid being decided in 2005.

[its_me_mango]

sorry i digressed and became snotty. I believe china is a good choice, they really need to have something big over there, they need to make some sort of a Leap Forward, but it needs to come from the heart.