Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Mizore · 11-16-2005, 08:03 PM

Ok, I know there has been a lot on this. I promise I've read it all. But just wanting to ask a little more advice. So thanks, in advance for your kind help.

LP non-FIE seems to get strong ratings for durability and overall quality. The main criticism seems to be the lack of authority. While STM seems have authority but suffers from a shorter life span.

My question is this. I'm still new enough not to know what is the best blade. And frankly, I think I am the one lacking authority at present. I have decent point control, but don't like how flimsy my FL non-FIE feels. Plus it is constantly rusty unless sealed in oil.

My Allstar, also Non-FIE, is my favorite. I like that it feels confident and is straight, or rather was (until one of the better fencers trying to make a point of killing me off quickly, ran headlong into it a week ago and gave it a curve like a racetrack arching to the left. My touche at least.)

Since I'm relatively new I still want a blade that can take a little punishment and novice mistakes, but will also last through practice as I learn and study. I am impressed with the postings about the durability of the LP non-FIE. But would like to hear what those fencing with them think about their authority on the piste and how that can be compensated for. Will it really feel so different than the Allstar I own now?

downunder · 11-16-2005, 08:13 PM

authority?

Inquartata · 11-16-2005, 08:26 PM

Strength or stiffness, I think?

Mizore · 11-16-2005, 08:54 PM

The previous posts about LP all talk about lack of authority. Which I took to mean that is seemed too light and maybe didn't have the right stiffness or weight against heavier blades. I've only held one LP and didn't have the chance to fence with it.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 11-16-2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizore

The previous posts about LP all talk about lack of authority. Which I took to mean that is seemed too light and maybe didn't have the right stiffness or weight against heavier blades. I've only held one LP and didn't have the chance to fence with it.

The LP has some wobble in flight. Its tough to do good beats and takes with it.

Inigo_Montoya · 11-16-2005, 10:44 PM

Are you talking about foil or epee? The LP non-FIE epees do last a while and are fairly forgiving on bad hits. One thing to keep in mind is that they are very different than other blades. They are a lot lighter and takes a bend throughout the entire blade instead of just at the tip.

Mizore · 11-17-2005, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo_Montoya

Are you talking about foil or epee? The LP non-FIE epees do last a while and are fairly forgiving on bad hits. One thing to keep in mind is that they are very different than other blades. They are a lot lighter and takes a bend throughout the entire blade instead of just at the tip.

I fence only Epee for now. Since I'm still pretty new to this, I don't know that I have developed a real feeling for what a good Epee should feel like. I do know that I like balance and blade that stays relatively straight. Is the feeling of the LP different enough to rule it out for a novice?

The other reason for looking at LP is that weapons are quite expensive in Japan. And ordering from outside can be nearly as expensive with shipping and possible customs taxes. So I want something that will hang in there for a while since replacements are painfully pricey.

shlepzig · 11-17-2005, 01:32 PM

I have used the word authority when describing epee blades in the past, however, I don't think I am unique in doing so.

When I have used it, it was meant to describe the blades ability to control the oposing blade or resist control by the opposing blade. The LP blade because of it's lower weight and rgidity has somewhat less effect in beats and takes against the opponents blade, ergo authority. Similarly the Vnity I use, as it is tres' whippy I would also describe it as lacking authority, beats don't arrive crisply and the point is less useful as it is still flying around. The BF blade with it's mass and stiffness has excellent authority, a beat arrives crisply delivers a lot of energy to the opponents blade and the point is still right where you think it is.

Conversely, the blades resistance to beats, etc follows along the same line. My lighter blade or more flexible balde will have it's point displaced more by a heavier blade when similar beats are adressed to it. This quality I would also describe ad having less authority.

So basically a blade that is heavier and stiffer will have more authority, than one that is lighter and more flexible. Authority just seemed to be more descriptive of the actual quality you are looking for in a blade during a bout, than the pure mechanical terms of mass and flexibility.

Shlep.

Inigo_Montoya · 11-17-2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizore

I fence only Epee for now. Since I'm still pretty new to this, I don't know that I have developed a real feeling for what a good Epee should feel like. I do know that I like balance and blade that stays relatively straight. Is the feeling of the LP different enough to rule it out for a novice?

LP blades can be suitable for a novice. It depends on your style. As mentioned before, the blades aren't as stiff as other blades, so it is not as good for fencers who do a lot of actions on the blade (beats, blade transfers, etc.). It is good for fencing absence of the blade and is good for point control. Depends on your style. If you're wanting to get a blade that will last a while due to shipping costs, you might want to think about investing in a FIE blade. The BF FIE are a great option if you want something thats stiffer and has more weight to it.

BenTheEMOP · 11-17-2005, 04:30 PM

I have an older Leon Paul blade (non-FIE) that has a lot of "authority" or stiffness to it and a newer one that is maraging, and lighter, but still seems pretty rigid.

Have the blades changed recently, or are you guys thinking of a certain type when you say they are lighter and more whippy?

Overall, my Leon Pauls have held up better than any of my other weapons.

edwin012290 · 11-18-2005, 12:14 PM

well, i've fenced for a year and a few months and i have one non-fie LP epee weapon. its very light and that comes with its advantages and disadvantages. you cant beat well. its very weak at beating and you'll feel it rattle when someone beats you. but when the action gets more intense, theres this weird wind cutting kind of sound thats so cool...but i find myself listening to it because it sounds so cool...and i lose. lol. get something decent. i dont think you need something so big as a BF FIE. i've only seen like more better people use something like that.

LUDICROUS · 11-18-2005, 06:09 PM

Getting BF FIE's has nothing to do with skill.. If you can afford better, why not?

Inigo_Montoya · 11-18-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

Getting BF FIE's has nothing to do with skill.. If you can afford better, why not?

I also think getting a BF FIE epee blade has nothing to do with skill. The first epee I bought was a BF FIE. However, a beginner is more likely to be rougher with the blade (not having the correct distance when attacking or counter-attacking for example) and breaking the blade quicker than its normal lifespan. It's usually reccomended to get a non-FIE blade as your first epee blade or until you have gotten a better sense of distance when attacking or counter-attacking to help avoid getting those nasty bends in the blade.

Morion · 11-21-2005, 02:38 PM

I've used the LP Etoille blades before. For me personally they are a bad choice because I am too heavy handed. I all but destroyed them rather quickly. If you have good point control and a good sense of distance you should be fine with them. My problems with the blades come from my lack of skill.

Mizore · 11-21-2005, 05:10 PM

Thank you everyone for your advice. I spent a Saturday morning at the local shop looking over blades and decided to give the non-FIE LP a try. So here are my initial thoughts about it.

First it is lighter than my other epees but not so significantly as I had expected. It is a little weaker in beats, but it didn't seem to be any different in takes.

Second. I like the point control. Though softer than my other epee, I could still have a strong sense of where the tip was, same as my Allstar epee. The first night out I managed to win some bouts with the regular epee fencers. I also managed to score 2 touches on my most admired senior fencer, who is almost impossible to hit and wipes the floor with almost anyone he faces. (I've never managed a touch against him before) At 70 he is a lesson in economy of movement, point and distance control and cool composition that renders helpless even the most athletic opponents he faces. And to top it off he is very modest about it. He treats every fencer with equal skill so gaining 2 points on him is just short of a miracle. So as far as I am concerned the LP is now my lucky epee.

Lastly. I'm using a bulky generic Belgian grip with it. I think it is too heavy for the LP. So I'll look into something better made and hopefully a tiny bit lighter than this generic. Any suggestions?

fencinman89 · 11-21-2005, 06:34 PM

Might i suggest the new absolute grips. Theyre very nice, I bought a few this sunday and they are just like the old Uhlmanns very nice.
-Tre'

CvilleFencer · 11-21-2005, 10:00 PM

If you like a smaller belgian check out the LP Golubitsky Pro grips. They are small, forcing you to use your fingers (as you should). If you like Belgians period I really like the feel of the regular crinkle coated LP grips. I don't care much for their visconti design however as it is to bulky and fills up the hand. Makes me fence bigger in my movements than I would prefer. For non-LP I really like the Zivkovic grips in theory. In practice they can be rather fragile and they are stupid expensive, but I really do like the feel.