Survey: How do you respond to X situation?

[Sciurus Rex]

Many of our discussions here focus on responding to specific, quickly-occuring stimuli during fencing exchanges. For the most part, we tend to talk about "micro-tactics" (for lack of a better term for my own use) -- parries to certain attacks, for example, or when to advance vs. when to retreat. But I'd like to ask about slightly longer chains of events that might be utilized for their "macro-tactical" potential.

In other words, when the bout is progressing in a certain way, how does your attitude change?

The idea is that if *I* have an inkling of what *your* attitude is, some small part of my brain might be able to turn it to my advantage. Maybe. Maybe not.

Please answer thoughtfully but quickly. Don't second-guess yourself or try to post a "good" response. Be honest.

Each question involves a 15-touch bout.
How do you feel, what is your intent, or what overall tactical decisions do you make when:

1. In the mid-game, your opponent pulls ahead with four consecutive touches?

2. In the mid-game, you pull ahead with four consecutive touches?

3. The score is tied 14-14 (with about two minutes left)?

4. Your opponent is ahead 13-8 at the start of the third period?

5. You are ahead 13-8 at the start of the third period?

[attila]

Hi
Really excellent questions. However they need so much time to anwer,and besides I CHARGE people money to give them this info, so you are outta luck.

------------------
"Kill the men, save the women, and by the gods, do not spill the wine"

[Peach]

As a sabre fencer, I will leave the time out of the equation. What is this third period you mention?

1. Opponent pulls ahead by 4? Panic. Pull up my socks. Breathe. Ask the score. Straighten my weapon. Stop panicking. Ask myself what consistent error I am making (usually not using the whole strip, or else I'm leaning when I lunge). Ask myself what my opponent is doing successfully. Change my tactics. This takes about 4 seconds.

2. I pull ahead by 4? At this stage I'm willing to make an obvious action (even if it costs me a touch) in order to set up the next touches because I have room to play. It also works to make my opponent over-confident.

3. 14-14? Oh, this happened three days ago in my second DE. I often reserve an action for just this situation, something I have not used or have only used once in the bout. Mostly I just try to keep my head. As I recall, during that recent DE, all I remember is feeling confident that I could get the touch, just the way I had felt throughout the bout. The even bout is when you really have to focus on one touch at a time. You deal with whether you're going to win or lose after the touch is over and you've won or lost.

4. If my opponent is ahead 13-8 I fight for every touch but basically I'm done. I have only rarely been able to win a DE bout when I'm that far behind. I've won pool bouts when I was down by 4, however. Hmm... I have to think about that.

5. If I'm ahead 13-8, it depends where I am in the DE table. If this is an early bout, I relax. I'm willing to let it be 15-13 for me if I don't have to wear myself out. If it is a later bout, I sharpen my footwork and try to nail the last two touches because at this stage my opponent is presumably capable enough to pull it out.

[damianip]

In épée:

1) Change whatever I'm doing
2) Continue what I'm doing
3) Take some distance and wait for an attack.
4) Attack aggressively, then sit back. Try to pin him at his end of the strip and then draw attacks.
5) Same as 4

Paolo

Of course, if I ever run into any of you on the strip, I won't do any of the above.

[space_cadet]

Originally posted by Sciurus Rex:

1. In the mid-game, your opponent pulls ahead with four consecutive touches?

Four consecutive touches??? Oops, I did it again.

2. In the mid-game, you pull ahead with four consecutive touches?

Woo hoo, I love winning.

3. The score is tied 14-14 (with about two minutes left)?

Been there, try to win.

4. Your opponent is ahead 13-8 at the start of the third period?

Never fenced in a third period. It's always been over in the first or second period.

5. You are ahead 13-8 at the start of the third period?

See answer for 4.

[This message has been edited by space_cadet (edited 07-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by space_cadet (edited 07-19-2001).]

[Moonitic]

One touch at a time, regardless of where I am. And I will adjust according to the person I'm fencing.

[veeco]

Originally posted by Sciurus Rex:

1. In the mid-game, your opponent pulls ahead with four consecutive touches?

Do something else. Whatever it is, I am now four touches down and I am going to have to attack


2. In the mid-game, you pull ahead with four consecutive touches?

Start using this to break my opponent's psyche. I will usually start pumping my fist and yell, showing that I am confident that I will win this bout. Then I do the same thing I just did. It won't work most likely, but I'll try one more time.


3. The score is tied 14-14 (with about two minutes left)?

At this point, anything can happen. Most likely I will focus on this touch and take it as a normal one, trying not to think about the score. If I have been catching up, I will feel more confident than if I was ahead.


4. Your opponent is ahead 13-8 at the start of the third period?

I will concentrate on what has been done before and try and setup 5 actions from these previous touches, turning them around and giving me the advantage.


5. You are ahead 13-8 at the start of the third period?

Go for doubles.
[/B]

[Arturo]

1.)Walk all the way to the end of the strip. Re-tie my shoes, straighten my blade, then test it on the opponent. While
I tried to figure out what it is that he/she did, or what caused me to not score(missing, getting parried). Then try change it.

2.) Keep more distance, and keep doing what I was doing until it stoped working. Aand NOT TRY ANYTHING STUPID OR FANCY!!!!(common fault)

3.) Fleche with a flick to the oppossite shoulder. En guarde 4. counter 4 beat flick to high 6 or something to that effect.

4.) Have fun, try fancy stuff.. its over more than likely. Unless I know that I can win and have been making some mistakes, then I go all out.

5.) Chill, play defence, keep lots of distance, try to eat the clock up.......

[Zelda]

1. In the mid-game, your opponent pulls ahead with four consecutive touches?

Deep breath, and try to focus down on the next point and the next point only.

2. In the mid-game, you pull ahead with four consecutive touches?

See question 1.

3. The score is tied 14-14 (with about two minutes left)?

See this happened to me recently but it was 13-13 with about 30 secs to go its PLAY FOR TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!! DONT DO ANYTHING STUPID, mess around with them. jump around alot Dont lose it mentally. I went into priority minute really physced, but lost focus and missed a riposte. She won (kept me out the the 8!!! NO FAIR!!!)

4. Your opponent is ahead 13-8 at the start of the third period?

Dont give up. Just take it one point at a time.

5. You are ahead 13-8 at the start of the third period?

DISTANCE!

[Chris]

Originally posted by Peach:
As a sabre fencer, I will leave the time out of the equation. What is this third period you mention?
4. If my opponent is ahead 13-8 I fight for every touch but basically I'm done. I have only rarely been able to win a DE bout when I'm that far behind. I've won pool bouts when I was down by 4,

Obviously, if you think you're done, you're done!

I recently was IN that position, more or less; I can't quite remember if I was down 13-8; I was down 13-9; got the 10th, and stumbled into a counter-time action (this was the final and I was tired!), so it was 14-10; it was a C1 event, and I was not particularly thrilled about my opponent being classified higher than me, so I got real determined, but backed off the distance, and made an effort to keep my steps more controlled; Fortunately, I was correct in assuming he would try to use his reach advantage to double out, and got the next two touches; after that, he tried to parry, and I was able to disengage, and hit; after 3 fairly aggressive actions, (figuring he would try to back off), I switched to a push-pull, and evaded his counterattack, (it helped that he used his arm too much,) and scored the next one, as well; making it 14-14. Now that it was tied, he was less likely to attempt double, and I had him uncertain of what he should do, so I used that uncertainty to press an attack home with an early coupe, and a disengage thrust.

I don't mean this to be taken as bragging, as I had certainly screwed up fairly well to get INTO that predicament to begin with, but rather that, a change of attitude can be acheived to beneficial results even VERY late in the game.

Fence On!

Chris

[Stryder]

Chris & Peach-
It CAN be done!
My first nationals I was a little nervous in the gates and started out my first DE bout trailing 10-0 against Marcel Miernek. Good guy but no spring chicken. After I finally pulled my head out I ended the bout 15-11.
My next bout I did the exact same thing from about 10-2, but made up the ground a little slower to end up losing 15-13.

Where's that cartoon of the frog being eaten by the stork who prolongs the inevitable by reaching out of the storks beak to grab the stork by the throat.
Caption: "Never give up."

------------------
www.geocities.com/strydermike

[weezelbit]

This is a great question, especially for me. I'm trying to get back to competitve fencing after some time off (for baby) and these questions focus on all my competitive bugaboos.

1. When my opponent pulls ahead +4:

Often this is because they suddenly have my number. They often do the same move over and over, or play off the same type of attacks. The first thing I do is change the distance. Open it or close it or do something that messes up your opponent's ability to set you up. If they are geting me on a parry/riposte or remise, I stop attacking. Maybe I can try a second intention, but I have to calm down first.

If they are hitting on their attack, then perhaps I am being too reticent and defensive. I come up with a basic attack and throw it at my opponent. Even if my attack doesn't succeed, it often breaks me out of my mental tangle enough to come back and fence the bout rather than letting myself be pushed around. Most often, the attack suceeds. It is not expected.

A funny thing. I'm pretty tall, but it is often a surprise to me to realize that I'm taller than my opponent (and my arms, lunge et.al. are longer). Often if I think big - think like I am big - it makes a huge difference in my score. I'm not fast but I can be very accurate, so I try to think like a bully. It changes my whole stance. I try to push my opponent with my torso (not touching - just mentally pushing the space between us) as well as keep my blade moving in a thug-like manner (can't describe that at all, sorry).

I don't do too well if I take a breather - tie shoes, straigten blade, etc.- because I tend to start thinking too much. However, if my opponent takes a breather I stand very still, relax all my muscles and re-imagine my opponent as simply a target.

2. If I pull ahead by +4 then I am ecstatic. It means I am doing something exactly right. My feet and hands and brain are all functioning properly. If I have been using the same move to get all those points, I try not to get too excited and close the distance or make my moves too big if I try it again. I become more careful in my set up. I throw in a few other things then come back to the move that worked so well. I find it is never good to get too hung up on only hitting a certain way.

If my opponent is on her/his toes then they will probably change something - their distance, their response - and I try to be watching for that. The moment it happens, I abandon my successful move and try something else. Being flexible enough to change and drop a favorite move is very important.

3. Arghh! The dreaded 14/14. I almost always choke here. I think myself into a hole. The best I have come up with - especially if I was the one who brought it up to 14/14 by catching up - is not to loose my momentum. I try to keep my moves simple and play most with distance (I'm talking epee here) and hope my opponent is just as antsy as I am.

Most of all, I try not to think of what the score is. This is my biggest weakness: I have a hard time focussing on one touch at a time and keeping my attention on the strip. I remember one bout I fenced up to 14/14 (several years ago). It was to get into the final 8. Pressure on. There was a guy coaching me from my club who wasn't my regular coach and didn't know my little pet peeves (don't talk to me on the strip is a big one). I knew just what I had to do to get the touch - I had to fleche at just the right distance. I was all wound up, waiting, teasing my opponent closer,. . . and the coach yelled "Go!" (I don't even know if he was talking to me or just shouting or what). Of all the noises of shouting and cheering allover the venue I picked out his voice and I went off like a gun - completely out of distance. My opponent parried and hit. Arggh! If I had been able to focus on the action completely, I would never have heard him.

Someone once told me that there are two kinds of fencers. There are those who are so focussed and single-minded that when they are on the strip, the bout is the whole world. I'm sure they have their bouting problems (gosh, I wish I did). Then there are those, like myself, whose attention can be all over the venue even while they are fencing. The difference really tells at 14/14.

4. Ohh. I hate this. 13/8 and the opponent is ahead. Well, it gives me somthing to fight for. If I haven't figured out what I'm not doing right or what I'm doing wrong at this point, I better work hard. Anyway, I still have two whole touches before I loose - so much can happen. I try not to allow myself to get extremely defensive until it is 14/8. Why get off a sinking boat until the water is up to your chin? Let's just hope that at the beginning of the second period the score was 13/2. Then I would actually being doing something right.

And, most important, I try not to start thinking of excuses as to why I lost the bout - yet. My leg hurts; I'm tired; I didn't sleep enough; I have a crappy weapon/ director; next time I'll eat better; next time. . .

5. Ohh, I love this. I would dearly love to crush this opponent. Too bad it won't be 15/2.