Republicans Want an Investigation Into 'Secret Prison' Leak

[esskreemr]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/...obe/index.html

Can you say smokescreen?

They hold up investigations into pre 9/11 intelligence failures, they hold up investigations into pre-Iraqi war failures, they dismiss the Plame leak as inconsequential. Yet, they are jumping on the bandwagon to investigate who leaked the fact that the U.S. may have prisons that violate International charter as well as several U.S. laws? Concentration camps with no oversight? No wonder Cheney wanted a rider pretty much allowing the CIA to torture and kill at will.

Seems to me a certain group has their priorities skewed.

[Inquartata]

Can you say "someone has leapt to a conclusion"? ( Maybe that wouldn't happen if you could control those knee-jerks, Ess. )

[esskreemr]

Can you say "someone has leapt to a conclusion"? ( Maybe that wouldn't happen if you could control those knee-jerks, Ess. )

I'm just reporting the news in a fair, balanced, and totally objective manner. I'm not sure what you mean by leaping to a conclusion. I'm sure the reporters checked their sources.

[esskreemr]

Can you say "someone has leapt to a conclusion"? ( Maybe that wouldn't happen if you could control those knee-jerks, Ess. )

By the way, I understand that the leak may have been from the Republican side. I would just like to know why other investigations have been pigeon-holed while this seems to be getting a green light to the fast track.

[Slim]

I'm just reporting the news in a fair, balanced, and totally objective manner. I'm not sure what you mean by leaping to a conclusion. I'm sure the reporters checked their sources.

Concentration camps? Right. I somehow fail to see the comparison of lingerie skull caps to forced labor and Zyclon-B.

Please, continue to make an a$$ of yourself. It's quite fun to watch.

[epeeisky]

I don't think there needs to be an ivestigation about who leaked it, but who allowed these prisons to take place. If any torture happened then those responsible must be brought to justice. To so blatently disregard national and international laws on the subject is unacceptable and most be severly punished.

[Inquartata]

By the way, I understand that the leak may have been from the Republican side. I would just like to know why other investigations have been pigeon-holed while this seems to be getting a green light to the fast track.

Perhaps we should ask pigeonmeister. I'd think pigeonholes fall right into his area of expertise.

[Inquartata]

I don't think there needs to be an ivestigation about who leaked it, but who allowed these prisons to take place.

So, leaking CIA covert ops is allright so long as the motives are deemed pure?

Otherwise, your logic would suggest that there should have been no investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's identity, but only into who allowed her to forward her husband for a mission, no?

[esskreemr]

Concentration camps? Right.

They're concentrating 'enemy combatants'. I could have called them gulags which I've heard a couple times.

I somehow fail to see the comparison of lingerie skull caps to forced labor and Zyclon-B.

27 detainees have died in US 'care'. I guess their lingerie skull caps where on too tight.

Just this month 5 US soldiers were charged with abuse for kicking and punching detainees. Guess they refused to wear their lingerie skull caps.

Quite a bit of photo evidence exists showing US soldiers abusing prisoners.

This has happened at the compounds that we know about. I wonder why they need holding facilities that no one knows about. Maybe they ran out of lingerie skull caps...

Please, continue to make an a$$ of yourself. It's quite fun to watch.

Slim, buddy, pal! Did you forget to take your 'happy' medicine today? You're usually such a pleasant, easy going guy. Now, I'm just sensing bitterness. You take things waaaayyy to personally. You shouldn't consider every turned phrase, every spin that doesn't spin in your direction as a personal attack. I realize that 98% of your 'discussion' technique relies on pointing your finger at the opposing view and screaming 'TRAITOR' while looking down your long pointy nose. This isn't the 1600s, you can't burn me at the stake no matter how bad you want to light the fire.

[esskreemr]

So, leaking CIA covert ops is allright so long as the motives are deemed pure?

Otherwise, your logic would suggest that there should have been no investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's identity, but only into who allowed her to forward her husband for a mission, no?

Valerie Plame, broke no law. Wilson broke no law.

If the holding 'facilities' violate International Charter and/or U.S. law, and I don't know if they do, there is no comparison between this and a revenge outing of a classified CIA agent. One is breaking the law, the other is revealing illegal activities by US agents.

[epeeisky]

So, leaking CIA covert ops is allright so long as the motives are deemed pure?

Otherwise, your logic would suggest that there should have been no investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's identity, but only into who allowed her to forward her husband for a mission, no?

Your analogy is not apt. It compares a possible heinous crime against a women who's cover was blown to get back at her husband for criticizing the administration.

If the CIA is disregarding US and International law then they should be brought to justice. Just because it is secret does not mean that it is not illegal.

[gojujay]

Your analogy is not apt. It compares a possible heinous crime against a women who's cover was blown to get back at her husband for criticizing the administration.

She was undercover at the time? I thought she was riding a desk after leaving the field a few years back.

[esskreemr]

She was undercover at the time? I thought she was riding a desk after leaving the field a few years back.

Sigggghhhhh... The CIA doesn't automatically declassify covert agents when they are removed from the field. This would present a danger to the operatives still working for whatever front company at the agent was working. Not just agents would be endangered but pretty much anyone associated with that company.

Inevitably it is up to the CIA to determine when an agent should be declassified. They obviously have decided that was the case. It could also be backlash for the Bush Admin blaming the CIA for bungling the intel on the Iraqi war.

[Inquartata]

Your analogy is not apt. It compares a possible heinous crime against a women who's cover was blown to get back at her husband for criticizing the administration.

Assuming many facts not yet proven there...

No one ever seems to wonder whether Wilson got himself selected specifically so that he could have a go at bloodying the Administration's nose. He seems not to have ever been a fan of Bush & Co. If that was the intent, and his wife enabled it, then "getting back" at them was fully justified. And we should stop blathering about the "crime" of exposing a spy, because Plame wasn't, and there have been no indictments for any such "crime".

I know the left thinks it knows everything that happened and why, and of course that it can be nothing less than whatever puts the Administration in the worst possible light. But maybe it could actually wait for the justice system to catch up with its omniscient opinions before making confident declarations about "what is"?

If the CIA is disregarding US and International law then they should be brought to justice. Just because it is secret does not mean that it is not illegal.

And does the statute require a determination of legality before punishing expose of an operation? I suspect not...

[esskreemr]

Assuming many facts not yet proven there...

No one ever seems to wonder whether Wilson got himself selected specifically so that he could have a go at bloodying the Administration's nose. He seems not to have ever been a fan of Bush & Co. If that was the intent, and his wife enabled it, then "getting back" at them was fully justified. And we should stop blathering about the "crime" of exposing a spy, because Plame wasn't, and there have been no indictments for any such "crime".

Hmmm... so you have no problem attributing unsubstantiated behavior to Wilson, but rail endlessley against applying any negative connotation to Bush's actions. Interesting.

I don't suppose his going had anything to do with his long experience as an ambassador. Also, Wilson wasn't the only person/agency to discredit the badly forged documents.

I know the left thinks it knows everything that happened and why, and of course that it can be nothing less than whatever puts the Administration in the worst possible light. But maybe it could actually wait for the justice system to catch up with its omniscient opinions before making confident declarations about "what is"?

Yes, and the right refuses to even look into relevant issues of potential misleading and falsification.

[jeff]

ess's first post on this thread states it very weil. The administration stonewalls (the Bush administration is more Nixon-like every week, so the lovely old jargon is coming back) on investigating items that potentially reveal their incompetence, unethical or illegal acts or are merely politically embarrassing to them, but jumps onto an investigation to find out who exposed administration-sanctioned acts that may be unethical or illegal.

Bringing up whether Wilson was qualified or Plame hooked him up for his assignment (well, there's a laugh: Bush administration apologists pointing the finger elsewhere with accusations of cronyism and nepotism) are nothing but partisan attempts to change the subject.

[Slim]

This has nothing to do with any concern for Plame or national security. It SHOULD be, but it isnt. In my opinion ALL leaks of sensitive and classified information should be investigated and prosecuted vigorously, but that's just not how things work. There have been numerous breechings of security and leaks by politicians, senators and members of congress on both sides that simply fall throught the cracks because there is nothing to be gained politically from going after those involved. Sandy Burger stuffed his pants full of classified documents and got nothing more than a fine. If a Bush Adminstration official did that, heh, well, I suspect somehow Bush would be facing impeachment.

Face it, no one involved really cares about Plame or Wilson or anyone effected by leaks of sensitive information. There have been many, many more leaks of information much more sensitive than this over the years that have put many more lives in danger than just Plame and her associates. It's all about trying to bring down the administration.

I'd like to see all the big mouthed politicians start getting slammed for not keeping quiet. But, it aint gonna happen. It's politics.

[pigeonmeister]

Perhaps we should ask pigeonmeister. I'd think pigeonholes fall right into his area of expertise.

I'm sure a lot of people here think i talk out of my pigeonhole. As for 'expertise', holes in other pigeons remain a bit of a mystery to me. Ask Mrs Pigeon.

[Slim]

Slim, buddy, pal! Did you forget to take your 'happy' medicine today? You're usually such a pleasant, easy going guy. Now, I'm just sensing bitterness. You take things waaaayyy to personally. You shouldn't consider every turned phrase, every spin that doesn't spin in your direction as a personal attack. I realize that 98% of your 'discussion' technique relies on pointing your finger at the opposing view and screaming 'TRAITOR' while looking down your long pointy nose. This isn't the 1600s, you can't burn me at the stake no matter how bad you want to light the fire.

Hemorrhoids. And my nose isnt pointy.

[jBirch]

I don't see much of a comparison here at all.

On the one hand, you have the deliberate leaking of material that is extraordinarily damaging to the national interest in the case of CIA prisons. That they exist and operate extra-legally does not justify their disclosure.

On the other, you have the deliberate leaking of embarrassing material that, while damaging to the national interest, isn't as catastrophically dangerous in the case of the Plame affair.

I would certainly put the case of deliberately revealing publicly the existence of these prisons as treason and the case of outing Plame as criminal. The former certainly needs to be fastracked to determine who leaked and why.

James.