German or french body cord?

[Corronis]

I'm just wondering, what's the difference between the two types other than price?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Corronis

I'm just wondering, what's the difference between the two types other than price?

Uhlmann-style retaining clip or Prieur-style retaining clip.

Uhlmann-style, which has been copied onto most 2-prong cords, has the retaining device built into the cord plug and a spring-loaded clip.

Prieur-style is a little plastic hook that's on the socket end that clips up over the plug when in place.

The Prieur style doesn't work very well and the plastic clips fall off easily, resulting in a weapon without a retaining device, which is illegal (a bit off tape off the floor provides a convenient replacement, renew with new tape as needed).

The Uhlmann style works well, but eventually the screw holding the whole contraption together can work its way loose. Once the screw is gone everything else disappears rapidly (spring-loaded, so it tends to disappear in a projectile manner). This, similarly, results in an illegal set-up, with, again, the taping option.

Then there are bayonet (or Leon Paul bayonet) and Italian bayonet (as made by Negrini and Carmamari). I assume you're familiar with the LP style (and the various knock-off versions. I assume you're not familiar with the Italian style which is basically a BNC-style connector. Built like a rock, and with a j-shaped groove that essentially guarantees that the plug will not come loose during an action.

For reference, I've used Italian-bayonet sockets/plugs (from Negrini) for the past year and a half without problem. Prior to that I used LP-style (and actual LP, as most of the knock-offs have reliability problems in my experience) bayonet. My foils and a couple of sabres I don't use still have LP sockets on them and I still have cords of that style. My sabres that I actually use have all been converted to the Negrini. When I first fenced foil and sabre the borrowed equipment that I used had Prieur-style 2-prong which I found maddeningly unreliable due to the retaining device design. I think that had I used the Uhlmann-style I might have stayed with it, at least until the switch to Negrini.

The Uhlmann-style is what is most commonly in use in foil and sabre in my experience.

Then there's the whole host of differences within a given style based on the actual manufacturer, such as wire type (flexibility, number of strands, durability, type of screw connections (piercing or flat), color of insulation (whether transparent or not), etc.), tolerance/consistency of fitting, etc., etc.

-B

[Fencing Jesus]

Originally Posted by Corronis

I'm just wondering, what's the difference between the two types other than price?

The German Cords have no sense of humor, but the French ones have a tendency to come unplugged and hide in your sleeve, when your opponent attacks.

[Purple Fencer]

To add to Brad's great explanation....the German type also tends to have wire breaks right where the wire emerges from teh plastic body....'cause that's where the sharpest flexing happens, so if you use one and it stops working, first thing to do is see if there's a break there, 'cause there probably is.

[remise]

Oiuyt -

I looked at the Italian website, but I had problems with the pricing. Where did you get your cords?

[larkmaj]

Also, the Uhlmann style plug can work in a priur style socket. The plug does move a bit but the clip does prevent it from coming out.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by remise

Oiuyt -

I looked at the Italian website, but I had problems with the pricing. Where did you get your cords?

I can't say specifically where he got his cords, but sword masters (http://www.sword-masters.com) has them on their website, if you wish to buy from a US vendor.

[remise]

Thank you. That is what I meant.

[oiuyt]

AFS was my source. Bought sockets (sabre-specific) and plugs, used the plugs to retrofit some old cords I already owned. One note, the plugs are soldered to the body cord wires, rather than attached with any of the various screw-style mechanisms. I'm not a particularly good solderer (not enough patience to wait for the metal to heat sufficiently), so I do, occasionally need to fix my cords.

I've heard very good things about the durability of the Negrini cords (which, among other things, are steel stranded so the wire is very long-lasting and fatigue resistent). I've also heard that they lack some of the flexibility of other top-level cords. Given that everything in my cords other than the plugs is sourced other than from Negrini, I can't speak directly to those points from my experience.

-B

[remise]

Great! I love to solder, so this could be a match made in heaven. My daughter has this innate ability to look at a body cord and it self-destructs. I don't know what she does to them..I've watched her handle them, and she does not seem to abuse them, but we've gone through the German, French and British cords. It's like the stare of Medussa. She looks at a body cord, and it turns to stone.

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by remise

Great! I love to solder, so this could be a match made in heaven. My daughter has this innate ability to look at a body cord and it self-destructs. I don't know what she does to them..I've watched her handle them, and she does not seem to abuse them, but we've gone through the German, French and British cords. It's like the stare of Medussa. She looks at a body cord, and it turns to stone.

Bear in mind that if she destroy a Negrini cord then it will be that much more difficult to repair.

[remise]

Can you elaborate?

[rcmatthews]

Originally Posted by Fencing Jesus

The German Cords have no sense of humor, but the French ones have a tendency to come unplugged and hide in your sleeve, when your opponent attacks.

Hahahahahaha

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by remise

Can you elaborate?

Because a Negrini cord repair would involve soldering, most repairs on other cords (excepting the A line) do not. Soldering is more difficult than screwing.

-B

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Because a Negrini cord repair would involve soldering, most repairs on other cords (excepting the A line) do not. Soldering is more difficult than screwing.
-B

Oh man....so MANY things could be said here!!!

[aster]

Please forgive my ignorance, as I'm new to all of this.

Can you use, say, an LP body cord with an Uhlmann-style socket? What combinations (if any) do or don't work?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by aster

Please forgive my ignorance, as I'm new to all of this.

Can you use, say, an LP body cord with an Uhlmann-style socket? What combinations (if any) do or don't work?

If you mean an LP bayonet cord with a 2 pin socket, no....they will not go together....the designs are totally different.

If you mean an LP 2 pin cord...they would go together, but you have no security device to keep the cord in, so unless you rig up some tape or a paperclip, it'll be a yellow card.

[aster]

::blink::

Um... I apparently have no idea what I meant. Does it matter that I'm talking about épée body cords?

[searches through some websites]

Aha! This is what I meant: does this work with this?

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by Corronis

I'm just wondering, what's the difference between the two types other than price?

Me thinks you need to specify foil, epee, or saber. Some of the comments about the retainers possibly are in reference to sockets not the body card per se. In epee, you can switch between german and french body cords without problem. Some of the more recent chinese made knockoffs are slightly different which cause problems for the retainers. For epee, in general the german are better constructed. But the french seem to work just as well. I definitely prefer the german sockets with the rubber ball mounted on the wire bail or retainer as being a more positive lock. In general I think both german and french have similar problems with regard to wire rot (corrosion) which turns the copper wire black and leads to increased resistance. In replacement the german body cords may have some advantage in that the plug screws which hold the copper wire into the prongs are stronger than the brass favored by the french (prieur) type. Quite often when the french versions get corroded you will break the plug screws while trying to tighten or loosen them. Which then calls for dremel tool work to get them out. Not to mention a cut across the plastic in order to get down into the brass.

In general you can live with either type. However, the chinese body cords which are now coming into the market are a bit more problematic. Sometimes they are excellently made but the dimensions are slightly off - as I mentioned earlier. Others are too cheaply made and probably won't last as long as the european variety. On the other hand I would not be suprised to find that the german and french are both having theirs made in china. Both german and french posts are made to rotate. Not at all sure why. I've heard that this lends itself to corrosion where the outer posts mount on the inner part. I've seen recent chinese body cords which have fixed spring metal for the posts which I've been told is an older style to the current german/french posts.

J.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by aster

::blink::

Um... I apparently have no idea what I meant. Does it matter that I'm talking about épée body cords?

[searches through some websites]

Aha! This is what I meant: does this work with this?

Ahhhhh....yes, it DOES matter...we presumed you were talking about foill cords!

For epee cords it doesn't matter...they should all fit. In fact, the LP and German style sockets have a built in retaining clip....the French has a plastic piece that supposedly fits over teh top (but like on the foikl cords, they rarely do)