**** Vendors

[DamedEscrime]

Please, will someone please tell me why it is that everytime I purchase fencing equipment that the vendors don't say things like, "Hey, you'll need a different pommel nut for that," or "If you order that, do you have this?" I'm not just talking mail order here.
Then I buy a new wired blade and the **** thing will only give me white lights or no lights. I rechecked the connections, changed the spring, and had to get a new nut to boot. IT still won't work! Do I sound frustrated? EEEK!

[Gav]

Take it back and ask for a refund or replacement. Sounds like you have dodgy kit.

[MattyCam]

Who are you buying you stuff from?

There are a couple of vendors out there that don't have the type of service as others.

I've never had any problems with The Fencing Post. I've been oerdreing from him for like 6 years--at tournamenst and mail.

Saul's straight with you and quality is the best. (that means, his stuff works--if that's not enough to ask for)

mc

[Craig]

I've dealt with PBT, American Fencing, and Triplette when needing 'consulting' - as in "I know what I want, show me what's good and what I'll need." They are very good at that. From what I've heard, Fencing Post is very good also.

Blade and Physical Chess are good only if you know exactly what you want - just too much of a language barrier for your average fencer who needs some hand holding. Same thing for Blue Gauntlet, although they are very helpful face-to-face.

To give some credit to the vendors, if they don't know your exact setup already, they won't know that you need something different. If they knew that you needed additional equipment to make what you are buying work, they'd be all over selling the extra pieces to you.

When you call or email a vendor, tell them what you've got now - what threads (US or Metric), inside or outside hex or screwdriver, german or french, etc. They'll tell you what you need and what works best with your setup. Try the same questions with a number of vendors and go with the one that gives you the best (most honest and helpful) answers.

HTH,
Craig

[Stryder]

The Fencing Post has working equipment in stock. They are the only vendor I've found that can claim that.

As for advice, try telling them that you are a beginner and need their help. You should ask you local know-it-all for help with these questions too.
There are too many diffent combinations of equipment for the vendors to know what to sell you, but if you approach them right, they might take the extra time to walk you through it.

PS: Buy from the Fencing Post.

[fred]

'Nuther vote for TFP, problem-free in getting orders received. Only issue via email is sometimes spotty feedback as to whether or not the order got received, it tends to just show up at the door about the time you start wondering.

I should say that everything I've bought thus far in wired blades or weapons from Triplette worked, but you roll the dice on the amazing Triplette order munger that will randomly discombobulate an order or part of an order. Last time I ordered a wired Blaise maraging foil blade I got a complete left handed French grip #4 foil instead. The other 4 items in the order were correct, but it took me a month to get the right blade. They were nice about the whole thing, but it was annoying.

[latenight]

I have had excellent success with Fencepbt.com. Great service and KNOWLEDGABLE staff. I can't say enough good things about them.

[MikeHarm]

Did you test the blade before assembling the weapon? Sometimes you trash the wire when you're tightening it up. (At least I've done it a few times)

Mike

[DamedEscrime]

Thanks guys. I bought my first and second foil from Blue Gauntlet, third from Physical Chess, and the extra blade from the only guy I know of in Chicago who happened to come to one of our tournys. (You probably know who I mean if you are from around here) I figured I should have an extra cause the only thing I haven't done yet is snap one.

This new blade has a german tip. When I looked inside the spring was sqaushed down and stuck in the barrel so I pulled it out and stuck in another one, but its still not right. I'm thinking now that eventhough both are german springs, maybe they are not the same size. The wiring seems to be ok and I didn't accidentally ground it this time so I'm still hoping its the spring.
I'm going to try fiddling with it again when I get back to the club (don't have a tester yet) and see what I can do.

[Catlady]

I will never buy so much as a tip screw from Blue Gauntlet. The body cord I got from them was a piece of junk, someone loaned me another BG cord, it also was a piece of junk. Seriously folks, I could have wired the thing myself and had it come out better--fyi I am possibly the worlds worst armourer. The wire was too large of a gauge to fit through the plastic tubes on the socket end, so they just ran them through from the side--so they pull out from the slightest pressure. The solder (I'm sorry the later it gets the worse my spelling seems to be) on the alligator clip looked pretty sad too. Not to mention on two out of three I've seen of that batch the grove on one screw in each wire, again at the socket end, was broken on one side. I'm probably not describing too clearly what was wrong, but trust me it was quite shoddy assembly. Now, I'm the first to admit I'm a bit hard on equipment sometimes, but my first body cord, from a different company--I'm not sure which as I had someone else from the club order it for me and he orders from a few different vendors--held together pretty well for about six months, this one held for about one.

The reason why BG is now marketing the supposedly patented "Mr. Chen's Easy Fix Bodycord" is because Mr. Chen, or whoever, couldn't manage to put it together right in the first place, thus it will blow up at the least provocation. I am not the only one who thinks so.

Believe it or not the spring in my alligator clip flipped out--maybe this is common, but I've never heard of it happening before-- and I was trying to wrestle it back in with no success. My coach, after watching me fight the stupid thing for five or ten minutes, offered to try to fix it for me. He looked at it and said "This is one of those Blue Gauntlet cords isn't it?" I told him it was, and he just shook his head and sighed. Apparently, I'm not alone. Blue Gauntlet is cheap, but in this case there's apparently a reason. I guess I've learned my lesson about looking for bargains. Ultimately, I guess their gloves and some other stuff hold up okay, but just on principle, they will not be seeing so much as another cent of my money as long as I can help it.

Thanks for listening to my rant, my club mates have heard it so much they can probably repeat it by heart. Anyway, don't order anything electric from BG, you'll probably regret if you do.

As for other companies the only other ones I've ordered from are American Fencer's Supply and Blade. I just ordered tips, barrels, screws and wires from AFS, so I can't judge too much from those, but they seemed all right if a bit expensive. I got my back up weapon, preassembled from Blade, and it's all right, it has less whip in the blade than I like, but I suppose that's a hazard of having to do stuff through mail/e-mail order, the bend on the pommel was a bit odd as well, but not so bad that it was unusable and it did work when it arrived. I would probably order from Blade again, although I've heard rumors lately that they've recently gone downhill.

As I mentioned, I'm about 30-45 minutes, depending on traffic, from the venue for the Sandy NAC, so I'm planning on doing some major stocking up there where I can see everything in person before I buy it. I think I'll take Stryder's advice and try fencing post. As I recall that's the type of mask I have, and it's holding up all right I guess--after fencing for three years I don't think I've had enough experience to make a definitive statement on what's good mask wear. Not to mention--don't tell the director-- my mask has ocassionally been known to become airborn

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Catlady ]

[Inquartata]

Buying at an event ( or at a vendpr's store ) is always best. You get to sort through stuff, try it on, and you save the shipping. Can't beat that.

In BG's defense, their 2000 sabre blades have outlasted all the others I've tried. But I know what you mean about electric stuff; I bought a couple of complete wired epees ( cheap ) and neither lived out the six-month...

[Peach]

I've had good luck with BG stuff, and they have always replaced anything defective immediately with no questions. Amanda once insisted on taking my lame from me at the end of a competition and fixing the zipper, then mailing it to me. Plus Mr. Chen repairs my equipment quickly and well. They've made a decision to operate like a business, I can tell, by reducing their own costs but providing service and good deals, and it appears to be paying off; I'm waiting to see if the obvious addition of staff at their headquarters results in poorer service, because service has been what they did best.

--Delia

[Stryder]

I am not a fan of BG equipment, but Peach is right. Mr. Chen and Amanda are very nice people who try very hard to get you what you want and need.
They do not always succeed, but their intentions are good.

Stryder's verdict:

DON'T buy complete weapons from them. They appear to be put together in a hurry.
DON'T or bodycords from them. I don't know if they even look at their bodycords before they ship them. Mr' Chen's EZ fix body cords are a great idea, all they need is a little Quality Control. I suggest you buy the EZ fix part and build a bodycord of your own. (Leon Paul bayonets for the other end, and quality ~18 guage speaker wire.)
DO buy blades from them. Their prices are good.
DO buy parts for whatever you need. BG's weakness in their QC, if you can fix what you buy, you generally get good stuff.

Buy masks and clothing at your own risk. I have never bought any of their masks but the designs appear a little shaky. Same goes for their uniforms.

Lame's: They occasionally have good deals on cheap club lame's. Not for your competitioin gear.

(I buy from The Fencing Post.)

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Stryder ]

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: Stryder ]

[Peach]

BTW, for what it's worth, Amanda is married to a very nice American guy I met at one national tournament when he came along to help. She's NOT married to Mr. Chen.

[Fencing Mom]

I feel compelled to add my 2 cents. During this year's JO's my son bought a grip and an Uhlmann foil lame from BG - I say "my son bought," but I wielded the plastic. First the grip - during an uneventful practice, the grip broke in half, down the middle. No one at his club had ever seen anything like it. Some suggested it wasn't fired correctly or perhaps that it was a knock-off.

Next the lame - it started to unravel at the neck, the flap in front of the zipper wouldn't lie flat - exposing the lining and technically covering target, and finally the zipper started to come apart from the lame. By summer nationals, that is, less than five months later, it was a mess. This, despite the fact that we had taken good care of it. The idea of a knock-off loomed large. We compared the lining of his lame with someone else's Uhlmann lame and found the design on my son's to be slightly out of focus.

Being a real pack rat, I had actually kept the receipt and took it and the lame back to BG in Sacramento. BG would have nothing to do with it. Mr. Chen acted as if he had no responsibility to a customer.

My son is not quite 16 and fencing is his passion. I expect that I will be buying equipment for this wonderful but expensive sport for the next 5-6 years. He will most assuredly be buying many years after that. Not one dime will go to BG.

[Catlady]

I must admit I haven't had any experience with trying to return stuff to BG, so I don't know what their customer service is like. They may in fact be quite helpful. I did speak with Amanda on the phone when she called to clarify something on my order. Suppose they deserve some credit for bothering to check rather than just guessing. She did seem very nice.

Still, I really think that if I buy something from you, you should have the decency to make sure that it's going to work reasonably well. I should mention, I bought a lame from BG and so far so good. I hesitate to sound like a cranky, over demanding customer because my last job involved a lot of customer service There were time when a customer would ask the (near)impossible,justify the demand with endless repetition of "I'm the customer" and refuse to accept any other solution that I proposed. I was ready at times to reach through the phone and strangle them. Usually I try to be extra patient with people who have to interact with the public having been there myself and understanding that sometimes despite your best intentions glitches happen, however for some reason this problem really hit a nerve.

As for the build your own option, that's what I've resigned myself to for the time being. I weaseled the armouring genius at my club into letting me have some stereo cord--plus during an epic search for the location of the solder I found enough stereo wire hanging out in the tool cabinet to possibly wire North America and I will be appropriating it as well as disavowing all knowledge of its existence should anyone ask . I'm hoping maybe if I muck around with the stuff I have, including one of the E-Z fixes, I can manage something workable--again my armouring skills are pretty much non-existent--if not I suppose I'll hang around said armouring genius looking incredibly sad and bewildered until he takes pity on me/and or gets desperate to get me off his back. What can I say, I'm a devious little thing when I want to be

[sallearmourer]

I have bought equipememnt from every vendor for the past 20 plus year. And let me tell you all they all have there fair share of problems.I have seen brand new lames from Allstar right out of the bag fail. Brand new FIE mask fail the punch test. New Leon Paul bodycords will fail 9 times out of ten. I had to rewire new blades were they have short in the tips from just about everyone.
Its just not BG. I buy there FIE mask because they have to past the same standard as any other FIE mask. To have equipememt FIE approve there is a 10,000 dollar Fee involed for testing said items. Bg quailty has improve over the years. I had to fix or rebuild a number of Uhlamnn bodycords last year because of the quality of wire that Unlamnn used was junk. So people everyone of them has problems. Santelli sell and cheap Saber mask that in my opioion is totally unsafe for competition.

Tim

[sallearmourer]

Oh! by the way if you decide to order blades from Santelli and never have before order pommels nuts from them. Santelli is the only vendor that their blades are 12/24. All the others vendors blades are 6mm.

This makes a difference as 6mm is larger than 12/24 therefore the 6mm pommel nuts are loose on 12/24. And 12/24 wont fit on 6mm.

[DamedEscrime]

I beg to differ with you on the blade size in regards to onlt Santelli selling them. The new blade I purchased from our local vendor was 12/24 all my others we 6. That was one of my frustrations in the opening post. As far as I know this guy gets his stuff from American Fencers.

[DJ Apostrophe]

My GF ordered two blades from santelli and thier pommel nuts are actually made for a slotted screwdriver. Which is nice in the fact that screwdrivers are a hell of a lot more common then hex wrenches in the everyday world... one less tool to buy / borrow. Also if you have these pommel nuts you can easily tell which blade they belong to... just my 2 cents.