Olympics Gear

[FencerGuy900]

If my memory serves me, which it usually does, the olympic fencrs all use some type of pistol grip. If I saw correctly then there must be some underlying principle behind it. What is it? If its so good then why do people still use French and Italian grips?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

If my memory serves me, which it usually does, the olympic fencrs all use some type of pistol grip. If I saw correctly then there must be some underlying principle behind it. What is it? If its so good then why do people still use French and Italian grips?

Nobody any good uses the italian grip any more. The pistol grip gives an advantage of power, as it allows you to better utilize the muscles in your hand. The french grip gives you advantages also, such as angulation and reach. In foil, I don't believe that anyone on the US points list uses a french grip.

[Black Jeebus]

So yeah for the most part people don't use French or Italian. At least those that do are very much the exception. In epee you probably see more French than in foil, since you can gain some small reach advantage posting with the French. But yeah most people agree the pros of the pistol outweigh the cons, or more specifically they outweigh the pros of the French.

[jeff]

There is a feeling among some that French grip gives more "doigte'" - that is, finger control and finesse. For most, but not all, competitive foil fencers the stronger grip of the pistol handle outweighs the "control" provided by French. That said, you can attain fine motor control with pistol as well. In epee there is the useful ability to pommel the weapon for additional reach, so you see some French grip there. I still see some competitive fencers using French grip.

Italian grip is seen very rarely. I can think of only two quality foilists who used it in the last 30 years. In my opinion, pistol grip does everything Italian grip does, and more comfortably (I've used all, and still take lessons with French grip).

[downunder]

i use french in epee for the reach.

[glowstix]

In foil, I don't believe that anyone on the US points list uses a french grip.

actually no one in their right mind uses a french grip in foil..

[fatfencer]

actually no one in their right mind uses a french grip in foil..

I really love the Italian 2 Prong grip. Yes Yes I'm officially a nobody; just a D05.

I will say this about the Italian with the wrist strap. I can disarm or seriously impinge upon any persons ability to fence with a strong beat lunge, due not to any skill of mine but thru the leverage that the strap provides. I use it to fence opponents I normally can't beat.

For some odd reason, the Italian forces a better guard out of me... makes me fence more successfully. i love the tighter disengages I get with it.

As for the french, its a frighteningly USELESS grip in foil.

BTW: what does 'doigte' mean? Is it an acronym for something?

Fatfencer

[prototoast]

BTW: what does 'doigte' mean? Is it an acronym for something?

It's french. Finger work.

[Fencing Jesus]

Hey, if I can still flick with an Italian Grip, then I'm definately going to get me one of those. Man those things are cool. I can see it now.

Advance while picking the guys blade with a big sweeping six, gorgous flick to the lower back, and then smack (sound of quillion hitting the mask). heh. Good times.

I'm so ordering one tomarrow.

[bigdawg2121]

Don't forget Salle Pouj, a few years ago they had several successful foilists who fenced (and flicked) using french. Anybody remember when Cassidy Luitjen would tear through women's foil tournaments with french grip foils? Managed to make a few world teams too. Not saying it's popular or that I'd try it, but it is apparently doable to some degree.

[remise]

I saw a kid at a major circuit tearing through the adults, and HE was using French Grip foil. Everyone was asking how he could be winning using a grip like that.

[Fencing Jesus]

Anybody remember when Cassidy Luitjen would tear through women's foil tournaments with french grip foils?

If by "tearing", you mean twisting, contorting, covering target, and ducking her head, then yes, I think quite a few will remember that.

Yep, the beauty of the french grip.

Italian is the only way to go.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Italian is the only way to go.

Of course. Which is why it's so commonly used among competetive fencers...

[remise]

Actually, this kids fencing was very clean, and he was fast as H#!!. Perhaps you are thinking of another fencer. I can't remember his name, but I remember a coach from another club admiring his attacks. This kids point control was deadly...the tip never swung around like I've seen sojme fencer do...it never wavered from the target.

[Fencing Jesus]

Of course. Which is why it's so commonly used among competetive fencers...

You don't know what your talking about. I have several books writen by real fencing masters that back up my position. Are you a Fencing Master? Are you allowed to wear the black? hmm? Yeah, didn't think so.

You really need to settle down.

[Zilverzmurfen]

You really need to settle down.

You really need to learn a new catch phrase.

[Fencing Jesus]

You really need to learn a new catch phrase.

So you are refusing to settle down, even though I totally proved my point?

Nice come back.

[eac]

You don't know what your talking about. I have several books writen by real fencing masters that back up my position. Are you a Fencing Master? Are you allowed to wear the black? hmm? Yeah, didn't think so.

I have also read those books you speak of by "real fencing masters" that talk about how great the Italian grip is. I would bet you're talking about Aldo Nadi and William Gaugler. (If not, what follows probably applies to other authors too, because almost no one has seriously championed the use of the Italian grip for a long time.)

Notice how incredibly out-of-date those people are? Notice how recently they have produced an internationally or even nationally successful fencer? Aldo Nadi won, yes, but that was the 1920's and 1930's-- people don't fence like that anymore. Furthermore, no descendant coach of his has produced a successful fencer in at least the past 20 years (I would know, I was coached by two such directly descendent coaches; I quit because I realized that they don't produce winners).

Modern fencing has completely abandoned the Italian grip, as well as many other vestiges of the classical school espoused by your "real fencing masters," because it stopped working 50 years ago. Attend a national foil competition, say a Junior or Div I Men's Foil NAC (This weekend in Albuquerque, NM, or mid-December in Pittsburgh, PA are the soonest ones). Watch the semifinals and the finals. Try to imagine whether your real fencing masters would teach you to fence like that. If not, consider whether your fencing masters, who so proudly wear (or should I say wore?) the black, are worth reading.

[OROD]

Yep, the beauty of the french grip.

Italian is the only way to go.

The Italian grip is as outdated as the French grip is in Foil. The only difference is that the French grip is almost always used these days to start off beginners, so every now and then you see a clueless newb show up to a competition with one.

.

[Fencing Jesus]

The Italian grip is as outdated as the French grip is in Foil. The only difference is that the French grip is almost always used these days to start off beginners, so every now and then you see a clueless newb show up to a competition with one.

.

You don't know the craziness you are talking.

You are not a Fencing Master, are you?

I don't think we will be taking your advice then.