Thought: Men's Epee Training Camp after Pittsburg

[Army Fencer]

The former National Men's Epee Coach had set up mini training camps after each Div 1 competition at NACs. Now that he has resigned, there is a little bit of chaos, and I'm not sure if there will be any official training camp. That said, I was wondering if there was any interest in having an unofficial training camp open to anyone on the cadet, junior, and senior points lists. (I'm not sure who these were open to in the past, but I think this is a good starting point because I would like this to be somewhat elite).

I'm sure I'm going to have to get something like this approved by the USFA so that we could use the strips that are set up and maybe a room at the venue. While I'd like this to be free, facility use might cost money. I think that in the past, it has cost around $40.

Once I get a little bit of input, I'm going to send a proposal to the USFA--probably Micheal Massik. I'd like to do this by the end of the week (4 Nov).

Thoughts, criticisms, and anything in between would be appreciated.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

The former National Men's Epee Coach had set up mini training camps after each Div 1 competition at NACs. Now that he has resigned, there is a little bit of chaos, and I'm not sure if there will be any official training camp. That said, I was wondering if there was any interest in having an unofficial training camp open to anyone on the cadet, junior, and senior points lists. (I'm not sure who these were open to in the past, but I think this is a good starting point because I would like this to be somewhat elite).

I'm sure I'm going to have to get something like this approved by the USFA so that we could use the strips that are set up and maybe a room at the venue. While I'd like this to be free, facility use might cost money. I think that in the past, it has cost around $40.

Once I get a little bit of input, I'm going to send a proposal to the USFA--probably Micheal Massik. I'd like to do this by the end of the week (4 Nov).

Thoughts, criticisms, and anything in between would be appreciated.

I'd be interested in fencing at said camps. Especially at the junior and cadet level.

[Mr Epee]

This was done a few years back.

I participated in it.

I didn't find it a particularly useful experience. Yes, you can get a few strong bouts in, but it doesn't work very well from the perspective of a training program.

Then you will have guys like Tamir who won't participate because they don't want people figuring out their game.

[darius]

I participated in the one in Chattanooga to come back to ROC with a better feeling for the men's epee game.

It was an excellent experience for two reasons: 1) Coach Soter did an excellent job presenting the material. 2) the level of the competitors was uniformly ... um ... high. I was easily the only sub-6' fencer there.

I'd hate to see these camps go by the wayside. It's a shame that Paul was the only national coach who held these training camps. Since a majority of the elite competitors in the country are all in one place, holding camps such as this seems like a good opportunity to bring the up-and-comers along, get more training time for the top dogs, and do some fundraising for the coach/USFA.

darius

[glowstix]

the question is, how do you qualify?? i'm sure they won't take just "anybody" or else my skinny butt will be going if its the last thing i do..

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Then you will have guys like Tamir who won't participate because they don't want people figuring out their game.

that's weak..

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by glowstix

that's weak..

Well it worked for him, and there is something to it.

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by glowstix

the question is, how do you qualify??

The first time I attended, I found out about it by word of mouth. Right now, I think it would be best to limit it to epeeists with points at the cadet, junior, and senior level.

Notwithstanding Tamir, I think it's important for American fencers and coaches to work together if we're going to come on to the international scene. The more sharing of ideas, the better we're going to be as a whole.

[Army Fencer]

Any suggestions on what people would like to see at a camp like this?

[oiuyt]

Not infrequently the "word-of-mouth" that spreads news of these camps is via flyers posted near the registration table, the strip assignment posting locations, the results posting locations, etc. I've seen a number of such posters for various weapons.

Gary Copeland and Andrea Lagan are running a team event in Pittsburgh for WE as a sort of bonus event. $30 entry fee which goes towards the squad's budget. Top 4 on the squad were committed to participate before it was announced.

Getting more of this sort of thing going on in all six weapons.

-B

[Army Fencer]

I'll talk to Andrea and see if I can get some info and ideas from her.

[veeco]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Well it worked for him, and there is something to it.

Yes, that's probably true, and I could be wrong about this, but I think that at the time, a large portion of the points fencers in the US earned to make it to worlds or olympics were still NAC points. That's clearly not the case now, and it is more unlikely that 2 fencers will have to fence each other to define who goes to worlds or not. The competition is outside of the pool of fencers in the US.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by veeco

Yes, that's probably true, and I could be wrong about this, but I think that at the time, a large portion of the points fencers in the US earned to make it to worlds or olympics were still NAC points. That's clearly not the case now, and it is more unlikely that 2 fencers will have to fence each other to define who goes to worlds or not. The competition is outside of the pool of fencers in the US.

not only that but its kinda selfish. i know its popular belief that fencing lesser fencers screws you up but still, someone like that has a lot to give. plus if he's worth anything, he would be able to adjust to anything anyone would have "figured out" about his style.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by glowstix

not only that but its kinda selfish. i know its popular belief that fencing lesser fencers screws you up but still, someone like that has a lot to give. plus if he's worth anything, he would be able to adjust to anything anyone would have "figured out" about his style.

This is Tamir Bloom we're talking about. He's different.

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

This is Tamir Bloom we're talking about. He's different.

I'm not saying you're wrong on anything, but what do you base this on? The fact that other people have told you that he was really good?
It just kindof seems like something you posted to make it seem like you know what you're talking about. Have you ever seen him fence?

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

Any suggestions on what people would like to see at a camp like this?

Some sabre?

[DJ Apostrophe]

Army,

Though I appreciate the desire to keep it an 'elite-ish' event... I think that since you are at a Div I NAC already... the level is going to be pretty high... if you hold it on saturday, you're conflicting with the vet 40+ event, and on sunday you are conflicting with vet 50-59 and vet 60+... so no matter what, you're conflicting with an event... I really think allowing open entry wouldn't be a bad idea, as everyone who would be attending would be a fairly serious competitor already.

just a thought. (and in the interest of full disclosure, it is somewhat self-motivated as I would like to participate (if I wasn't reffing... which I am, so the point is moot) and I do not have points.)

-w

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

This was done a few years back.

I participated in it.

I didn't find it a particularly useful experience. Yes, you can get a few strong bouts in, but it doesn't work very well from the perspective of a training program.

Then you will have guys like Tamir who won't participate because they don't want people figuring out their game.

Agreed. I did a couple, and was unimpressed to say the least.

Maybe a different coach, I might have a different opinion (just based on only having been to multiple camps with one coach) but I doubt it.

[MHS Fencer]

I participated in a junior one a number of years back, and I think that in order to make it a useful endeavor it must be restricted - the point is top-tier bout, not second or third-tier ones. The point is to prepare for international competition, but how many people are really capable of that level of bouting? I can think of about 10-20 at most. Honestly I'd divide that group into two tiers, and If you include the rest of the pointslist that's already reaching down to low third tier/high fourth tier fencers. Everybody at a Div 1 NAC is NOT the same level, and some of them are, to be honest a waste of time (at my last appearance at a NAC I was a complete waste of time).

The problem is that if this is only organized by the individual instead of a national coach, the top tier isn't going to want to participate - basically, instead of being about preparing the top tier, it will be about reaching out to more people, but it won't bring those people to the top level.

That said, if you want to organize it all, good luck to you - I personally don't put stock in it, but I've been lucky to have good competition in practice.

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by MHS Fencer

The problem is that if this is only organized by the individual instead of a national coach, the top tier isn't going to want to participate - basically, instead of being about preparing the top tier, it will be about reaching out to more people, but it won't bring those people to the top level.

Ah yes, the problem of being an eternal optimist. My hope is that once I get the ball rolling, I'll get the national coach to endorse it or improve it--once we have a coach, of course.

I talked to Michael Massik today about it, and he seemed amendable to the idea. I'll keep working on it.