10-27-2005, 12:01 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Summit, NJ, USA
Posts: 395
| Color me confused
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|  | | And now for this message... |
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10-27-2005, 12:03 PM
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#2 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,501
| Looks like a USFA/FIE alternative. I'm all for it if it means I can fence more, and the two don't come into conflict (Yeah, RIGHT.)
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"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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10-27-2005, 12:06 PM
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#3 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Angel, London
Posts: 2,443
| Quote: Can I compete in the Olympic Games by way of the American Fencing League?
No, not directly. Olympic fencing uses post-modern rules.
Is modern fencing ever going to be in the Olympics?
While few things are truly impossible, this is very unlikely to occur any time in the near future. At this time, the sport of modern fencing does not exist in any organized fashion outside of the United States.
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its some pseudo-classical crap... just the usual beat up on "sport" fencing although our members are less skilled, less fit, slower, etc etc | |
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10-27-2005, 12:08 PM
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#4 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,501
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by downunder its some pseudo-classical crap... just the usual beat up on "sport" fencing although our members are less skilled, less fit, slower, etc etc | It does sound suspiciously like the argument many classical fencers use to bash modern fencing, although now it's modern fencers bashing new rules. Still, as an epee fencer, I'm AOK with more events, as the game has fewer rules and no recent big changes to begin with, so less things to protest/change.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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10-27-2005, 12:11 PM
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#5 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Angel, London
Posts: 2,443
| SO what exactly have they done... say "lets make it all non-electric", and assume this will magically solve all their problems... | |
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10-27-2005, 12:15 PM
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#6 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,501
| Non electric? Missed that. Well, scratch that idea.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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10-27-2005, 12:16 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Summit, NJ, USA
Posts: 395
| I just don't get why they're calling it modern fencing. I've seen this guy post on the Classical list and I know he calls his school classical... just, odd really. | |
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10-27-2005, 12:19 PM
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#9 | | Din Älskling
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somewhere inside your head. Or am I?
Posts: 4,196
| OK.
*No electrical scoring systems. Judged bouts
* One-point epee bouts using pointes d'arret
Doesn't seem to bash "Post-modern" fencing. That will probably come later.
I don't see any problems with it. It's not trying to fill the roles of the USFA or the FIE.
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"Since when does being a patriot in America mean shutting your mouth?"
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10-27-2005, 12:20 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Summit, NJ, USA
Posts: 395
| Yeah... just saw that myself
"Post-modern fencing is the purview of the US Fencing Association (USFA) and the Federation Internationale d'Escrime (FIE), the two governing bodies for national and international (respectively) competitive fencing that is electrically scored. This is the type of fencing that is featured on cable sports channels such as ESPN2 on rare occasions in this country. It is also the type of fencing that is contested at the Summer Olympics every four years. It is very fast and very athletic. The weapons used are the foil, the epee, and the sporting saber."
I still don't see what's wrong with Historical/Classical/Modern. Why bring this post-modern into it?
Chris | |
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10-27-2005, 12:20 PM
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#11 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,501
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by esskreemr OK.
*No electrical scoring systems. Judged bouts
* One-point epee bouts using pointes d'arret
Doesn't seem to bash "Post-modern" fencing. That will probably come later.
I don't see any problems with it. It's not trying to fill the roles of the USFA or the FIE. | The tone of the website strikes me as rather passive agressive, however. it seems to give the impression that their system is far superior.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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10-27-2005, 12:32 PM
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#12 | | Din Älskling
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somewhere inside your head. Or am I?
Posts: 4,196
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by RITFencing The tone of the website strikes me as rather passive agressive, however. it seems to give the impression that their system is far superior. |
Well, considering they are starting up what appears to be an attempt at a National Organization, one would hope that they feel that their system is superior. Do I think it is superior? No, definitely not my style of fencing. I see no problems with trying to coordinate another level of fencing.
The terms modern and post-modern seem to be somewhat condescending and I'm fairly certain they don't regularly meet to extol the virtues of Olympic style (FIE regulated) fencing. Still, there is, IMO, a capillary effect. Olympic style fencers get fed up and begin adhering to more 'classical' standards. 'Classical' fencers switch to Olympic style. It's a matter of preference, just as which weapon you fence is, in most cases.
A fencer is a fencer first, foil/epee/sabre fencer second, Olympic style/classical/<insert other style here> third.
__________________
"Since when does being a patriot in America mean shutting your mouth?"
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zz,zz,zz,zz,zz,zz! | |
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10-27-2005, 12:36 PM
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#13 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,559
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Originally Posted by Christopher J Umbs I still don't see what's wrong with Historical/Classical/Modern. Why bring this post-modern into it? | Perhaps because they've started realizing that they disagree with the classical fencers and want to create a blend of 40's-era rules, 70-era rules, and some current rules, define themselves as "modern", and redefine sport fencing as "post-modern."
After skimming through their rules, that's my best guess.
-B
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10-27-2005, 12:41 PM
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#14 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,401
| It’s the fencing equivalent of building a fort in the back yard and spending the summer hanging out with your schoolmates. I wouldn’t pay it much mind. | |
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10-27-2005, 01:17 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 492
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by oiuyt Perhaps because they've started realizing that they disagree with the classical fencers and want to create a blend of 40's-era rules, 70-era rules, and some current rules, define themselves as "modern", and redefine sport fencing as "post-modern."
After skimming through their rules, that's my best guess.
-B | I think this is right.
I have to say that I am kind of glad that this group began. There have been for a long time many fencers who are really into the whole competative fencing thing, but who just do not agree with the rule changes which began decades ago. As such, they have somehow mistakenly gotten lumped in with classical fencers, while what they do is not really traditional fencing in the classical/historical sense. Unfortunately, classical fencing often becomes a catch all grouping in many peoples minds for anything which is not Olympic or SCA fencing. If there is anything I hope will come from participating on this forum it is to help give people a better understanding of what traditional fencing really entails. Perhaps this will give some of those who have previously been lumped into the classical fencing category a venue to pursue their true interest and maybe it will help create a more cohesive definition of 'classical' fencing in the larger community.
and as someone else said, more fencing is a good thing.
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"Si tu no sabes todas las acciones es como si un músico no supiera tocar todas las notas." - Fernando Chiriboga
"If you do not know all the actions it is like a musician who does not know all the notes." | |
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10-27-2005, 01:46 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,845
| Anyone who uses the word post-modern can't be all bad.
I think we've gone over this one before. www.classicalfencing.us
Same folks, I assume.
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10-27-2005, 02:41 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 492
| yup. I did a trace route on the urls as well as a few other organizations listed (USTFA, etc) there. They all seem to go through the same servers so I think that many of these are probably created by the same group of people... seems odd to start up so many groups with similar purposes... and many of the groups are rather ephemeral... wierd.
__________________
"Si tu no sabes todas las acciones es como si un músico no supiera tocar todas las notas." - Fernando Chiriboga
"If you do not know all the actions it is like a musician who does not know all the notes." | |
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10-27-2005, 02:44 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,469
| Check out the logo. The fencer lunging is leaning over his leg. I'd love to kick his back and watch him fall over, in typical scrub fashion.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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10-27-2005, 03:10 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 702
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Thorin | Having met Mr. Hagen, he is not anti-electric fencing in general. I've actually competed in one of their tournaments and the focus is pretty much using the same rules, etc as sport fencing, but fenced dry. He's a nice guy and is open minded.
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-DM
Penfold, Shush!
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10-27-2005, 04:02 PM
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#20 | | Have Blazer, Will Travel
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 9,807
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by oiuyt Perhaps because they've started realizing that they disagree with the classical fencers and want to create a blend of 40's-era rules, 70-era rules, and some current rules, define themselves as "modern", and redefine sport fencing as "post-modern."
After skimming through their rules, that's my best guess.
-B | I think Post-Modern fencing will have to involve lots of Foucault. | |
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