The USFA may ruin something good. But why?

[counterattack]

http://www.thebaycup.org/MAIN/a_mess...irs_of_the.htm

So there was some discussion of Eric Dew and his problems this season with the USFA. There is an much worse consequence for everyone who isn't Eric Dew. The USFA has "found out" about the Bay Area's dirty little secret. Through the facilitiation of Eric and with the good graces of the three local divisions (CenCal, Norcal, and Mtn. Valley) the Bay Cup was established. It is a local circuit that spans all three divisions, and has six events a season in each event, with great prizes for the season champions (hundreds of dollars worth of gift certificates). It has been going on for... 5 years? 6 years? More?

Anyway, the short of it is that when the USFA found that this was structured outside of the Divisions, they had a cow. Now they want it all to change. They say the divisions have to be in charge. But which division? It spans three divisions? And who will run it? Eric got it running , and one of the reasons it kept running, IMHO, was because it was outside the Division structure. Division people change yearly (sometimes not) and are often a "well no one else wants to do it so I guess I will" sort of person. Does the USFA not have anything else to do with its time (e.g.: figure out why the Bay Cup is so good and help other areas get something that good for themselves) than interfere with something working so well, so smoothly for so long? It is fine if they don't want Eric running it when he is suspended, but why make any other requirements when he comes back? What USFA objective is served by making sure "the Division is never subordinate"?

[\rant]

[edew]

When I first got wind of the changes to the Bay Cup, I contacted Michael Massik and asked why the requests. Mr. Massik claimed that there was never any discussion about the structure of the Bay Cup, wasn't aware of anything about the Bay Cup, and never discussed it with the three division chairs.

So the mystery seems to be a bit deeper than the claim on the Bay Cup website.

It seems that the three division officers are doing a fine job of crapping up the Bay Cup without any particular help from USFA. All these changes without direction and purpose will only make the Bay Cup confusing and inoperable.

[swordsen]

Tehre is going to be a comitee. The Bay Cup is doomed.
How on earth could peope be unaware of how the Bay Cup is structured? Eric has posted details of how it is run on here more than once, everyone I know who fences in California participates in it.
Geez. Hate to see a good thing die.....

[RITFencing]

I've never fenced in the Bay Cup, but I've got to say, this is pretty crappy. It also goes against the USFA's expressed mission:

The mission of the USFA is to develop fencers to achieve international success and to administer and promote the sport in the USA.

It doesn't seem like this is doing anything to help administer and support the sport in the USA. Far from it, in fact. If anyone would like to explain how mucking up what sounds like a very popular and successful series of competitions helps administer and promote the sport in the USA, please explain. I'm grasping for a reason, here.

[RITFencing]

Not to mention punishing Eric. I mean, to what end? What good does this do fencers in the USA, specifically the Bay Area?

[keith]

Not to mention punishing Eric. I mean, to what end? What good does this do fencers in the USA, specifically the Bay Area?

I think these are two different issues - or rather one triggered the other.

Does make you wonder why they didn't just run the competition as before for the coming year then go back to (the apparently succesful) business as usual.

..but hey you know things are going to **** in a handbag when they pass over forming a committee and go straight to forming a 'Task Force'

[Mr Epee]

So my question is this:

Why is it important that divisions need to be in charge of this?

[RITFencing]

I wonder if the best solution is to make the bay cup a non usfa deal. I know that people won't get ratings then, which sucks, but this way it can be run however people like. Personally, I still fence in non usfa comps if the fencing will be good.

[keith]

So my question is this:

Why is it important that divisions need to be in charge of this?

Well every organisation requires a defined structure where each level has a set of defined responsibilities and accountabilities. Failure to observe this godly heirarchy results in communism and boils.

[esskreemr]

We had the same situation in my division, albeit on a significantly smaller scale. Club infighting can usually be found at the heart of most squabbles. A nice, popular circuit can easily turn into another reason for so-and-so's club to feel like they are getting the short end of the stick.

[oiuyt]

As Keith mentions, the sanctions against Eric are completely unrelated to the organization or running of the Bay Cup. These are separate issues that both involve Eric (and the one led to the other being examined more carefully).

I'm not going to get into a discussion of how the Bay Cup has been run, should be run, or will be run. I will say that I've had discussions with people in leadership positions in the affected area during the past month and a half that have made me realize that how I thought the Bay Cup was organized/run was not necessarily how things actually were being done. As with most things, there are multiple sides to this story, not all of which are available here.

The USFA (however you want to interpret that word, from the National Office, the BoD, the 24,000 members collectively, the local divisions, or some semi-secret cabal or actual leaders who pull the puppet strings on the more public figures) is not trying to screw over Eric, the divisions near San Francisco, the fencers in that area, or fencers in general. The situation is not cut-and-dried with the USFA mucking things up where they should best stay uninvolved. It isn't nearly that simple.

-B

[Mr Epee]

Firstly, I do not know the specifics of this situation, but I find it pretty horrible that the USFA imposed such harsh penalty on EDew, and then made such a public issue of it. I seem to recall disciplinary procedures being handled with much more discretion, historically.

Essentially the USFA is attempting two leverage points

A. Ratings
B. Insurance

I’m not sure that either of these constitutes a particularly strong hand.

the USFA was unaware of how Bay Cup was structured and run.

We hope that everybody, though, shares our objective of helping the Bay Cup survive and grow through its current upheaval to remain the premier regional tournament series in the country.

How the hell did the USFA not comprehend the structure of the premier regional tournament series in the country. This is a serious failure in the organization.

[oso97]

Interestingly when the Southwest Section Circuit Cup was set up, we made sure that in the Operations Manual and the Mission Statement, that it CLEARLY said that it was a "cooperative effort of the Divisions" in order to avoid such little matters. Because of that, we've had to stucture ourselves in certain ways that have become a headache at times, but ultimately contribute to the stability of things.

It sounds like someone (or someones) in Northern California is getting a case of "power hungries." They'll call it by different names, couch it in better language, and say that its about "acountability" and "process." But, in the end, it comes down to power and control, i.e. "I want control over what you have built." We've had to deal with that as well here. Thankfully, partly by serendipedous circumstance and partly by design, we set things up so that one power hungry person couldn't do that much damage.

So, is the official position of the USFA such that no tournament organization or coordination can occur outside the structure of the Division? Sounds like a death blow for every single regional and sectional circuit to me. In which case, the membership should send a giant extended middle finger to the national leadership and go on about its buisiness.

[keith]

The situation is not cut-and-dried with the USFA mucking things up where they should best stay uninvolved. It isn't nearly that simple.

-B

On the other hand here is perhaps the most succesful regional circuit in the USA which appears to have been told by the USFA that it must re-organise; Why? is a reasonable response.

The only issue raised is that of the financials - and there is absolutely no allegation/indication of any financial impropriety, just that the individual in charge of the financials was not an 'elected'/USFA official. Clearly working on the principle that only elected officials can be trusted with money.

[Purple Fencer]

Since the Bay Cup covers multiple divisions, should't the natl office demand it be run by the Pacific Coast Section instead of one of the involved divisions???

If you're going to stick your nose in, make it somewhat logical....

[duel mom]

Isn't the issue that checks need to be signed by two people? Most non-profits and school PTSA's are set up this way so no funds can be absconded. Not necessarily do checks need to be signed by an 'elected official'.

[Mr Epee]

Isn't the issue that checks need to be signed by two people? Most non-profits and school PTSA's are set up this way so no funds can be absconded. Not necessarily do checks need to be signed by an 'elected official'.

While this may be a good idea, it is not required by law. An organization could require it however in their organizational documents [bylaws, etc...]

In my experience with double signatures, it's more of a hastle than a safety precaution.

[edew]

I am the person who signed all the checks then. Checks go to the following entities:
* club owners as reimbursement for referee fees
* Menlo-Atherton Trophy (now called "Occasions, etc...") for medals and their engraving
* various fencing equipment vendors for the prizes
* myself for my monthly fee of administering the Bay Cup

All transactions are conducted through checks or paypal so that there is a paper trail. While I do occasionally receive cash payment for registration -- and I can easily abuse the trust there by pocketing the cash -- I have faithfully exchanged cash to personal checks for deposit to the account.

I fully expected one day that there will be some scrutiny of the finances (as it should be on a frequent basis) and certainly wanted to show complete above-board and transparent accounting.

As for the operations manual and organizational structure of the Bay Cup, it is always ideal to have all the boilerplate items defined before going into an endeavor. But the operations of the Bay Cup was (and still is) more akin to a start-up rather than to a turn-key operation. Do what's needed, make it work, and then consider the mission statements, bylaws, operations manual and so forth. This isn't high school student government where people get to write their little constitution and then decide what to implement it for. We got the product. Make it work, and then fill in the legalese.

[penguin_2000]

Holy crap... what does one need to do to get his membership revoked...??

[misha]

Since the Bay Cup covers multiple divisions, should't the natl office demand it be run by the Pacific Coast Section instead of one of the involved divisions???

If you're going to stick your nose in, make it somewhat logical....

No, thank you!
Bay Cup is LOCAL to Bay Area (75 Miles radius from Oakland City Hall)
And we want it to stay local.
We already have PCS cirquit, which is a success itself.

We do not want to go to Vegas for every local event!!!


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