Do you prefer refereeing one weapon over others?

[KD5MDK]

Roughly, do you prefere refereeing one weapon over the others, if you are qualified in more than one?

I much prefer sabre. I fence sabre, and I'm much more accustomed to both the special events that can occur during a sabre bout, and to what actions there look like. Thus, I feel confident directing it on a much higher level,

In foil, I don't mind saying that if I don't see the action it is the fencer's fault, but I realize at the top levels the actions can be more precise than my experience covers. On the downside for it, it is clearly the most troublesome weapon for faults.

Finally, epee isn't too bad, until suddenly there's an attempt at a toe touch and the opponent is simultaniously claiming that it was floor and that his epee needs testing and suddenly it gets complicated real fast.

[mrbiggs]

Being a not-so-great ref, I actually prefer foil over epee, as a bad call every once in awhile is more expected.

(Keep in mind I'm not exactly reffing nationals....)

[Inquartata]

I am Inquartata. Although so is someone else, apparently.

Sabre, and only sabre.

[Aestro]

I like foil because if I see it, the actions make sense to me. I rarely fence sabre so even if I clearly see the action I am unsure as to how it is called. I think foil is also slightly cleaner in telling when judging a shift in ROW.

A potted plant could direct epee. Voted foil/epee.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Aestro

A potted plant could direct epee. Voted foil/epee.

Potted plants are far inferior to monkeys, in that monkeys can be trained to fling poo at epeeists who stand on the very edge of the grounded strip and them complain about floor touches being called.

[counterattack]

Originally Posted by Aestro

I like foil because if I see it, the actions make sense to me. I rarely fence sabre so even if I clearly see the action I am unsure as to how it is called. I think foil is also slightly cleaner in telling when judging a shift in ROW.

A potted plant could direct epee. Voted foil/epee.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, this is a general attack. here goes...

This is the kind of response that helps me understand some of the epee directing at tourneys. Refereeing epee requires concentration for a long time. The bouts often go the full 9+ minutes. And when things do get messy it is often about precisely when a corps-a-corps should have stopped the action, or whether a foot went off the strip, or whether a touch was on piste or on foot. These are among the harder things to determine, and ho-hum-I-fence-foil-so-epee-is-so-easy-to-direct referees mess up the calls so often because they aren't paying any attention. Epee is in fact the least demanding physically, but you know what? A marathon is more demanding than foil. If you think epee is so boring, then maybe you ought to direct sabre instead, because it sucks when the bout turns on a director who would rather be elsewhere. I suffered through a director at the LBI who was actually talking to someone next to them while the bout was going, and they were polite enough to make eye contact with this person frequently. And this was not a no-name-just-making-a-buck-for-the-weekend teenager. It was a well ranked director. It just isn't right.

[VELISARIOS]

Epee. But I 'll like to start fence with sabre......

[Black Jeebus]

I usually don't make the mistakes counterattack talks about, but jeez direcing epee on the local level will often suck the joy right out of you. I was directing epee at a local event, and it went to the end of the first period with a score of 1-1 or 1-0. At least when foil, and sabre are bad they engage your mind- force you to think about what happened. But epee when its bad just SUCKS THE LIFE AND JOY FROM YOU!!!

EDIT: Ultimately though, the absolute worst thing to direct is bad fencing!

[fencergal33]

I much prefer to direct saber, but I'll direct epee too. I just don't have the patience and concentration to direct epee. I get bored. I'm a piss poor foil ref, so I usually don't even try. Most fencers probably wouldn't want me to. I'm that bad.

[Katman]

Foil, then saber.

[Rapier_wit]

I'm somewhat torn between epee and foil. I feel more comfortable fencing with epee, but I enjoy the finesse that accompanies fencing with foil.

[kalivor]

I like all three, really.

Sabre goes nice and quickly.
I'm probably best at refereeing foil.
And while refereeing epee can often be boring, the shocked looks on epeeists' faces when they realise that (a) I've actually been watching, and (b) I actually know the rules is quite rewarding.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by counterattack

If you think epee is so boring, then maybe you ought to direct sabre instead, because it sucks when the bout turns on a director who would rather be elsewhere. I suffered through a director at the LBI who was actually talking to someone next to them while the bout was going, and they were polite enough to make eye contact with this person frequently. And this was not a no-name-just-making-a-buck-for-the-weekend teenager. It was a well ranked director. It just isn't right.

It isn't the weapon, it's the person. I know a couple of well-ranked sabre directors who do this. One of them I've actually seen turn his back on the action, then turn around and call the touch.

[jeff]

Far prefer referring foil. I do a good amount of high school directing (I'm cutting back this year as it plays havoc with my schedule, and I want to direct less and fence more) so have to direct all but:

- Foil is my primary weapon so I'm strongest here by experience and what I'm attuned to.
- A Sabre bout is like a Ramones song: if you don't like this one, just wait 2 minutes and it will be over. The tempo and rules are different, so I have to concentrate to make the adjustment from foil. Thank goodness it's not the double-touch marathons of days gone by.
- Epee: minutes of boredom and seconds of terror if you zoned out and stopped paying attention. As counterattack said, you really need to maintain concentration, because there will be a moment when you need to have been on the ball, even if most of the time you don't.


All that said: when the fencing is good, the referee has the best seat in the house for watching it.

[jeff]

Originally Posted by Peach

One of them I've actually seen turn his back on the action, then turn around and call the touch.

Sigh. If only we could black card a referee...

[Anhierd]

Originally Posted by jeff

- A Sabre bout is like a Ramones song: if you don't like this one, just wait 2 minutes and it will be over. The tempo and rules are different, so I have to concentrate to make the adjustment from foil. Thank goodness it's not the double-touch marathons of days gone by.

This is what I feel is wrong with the two ROW weapons.

About tempo there can be no disagreement. The rules and equipment in sabre force it to be on average faster.

But, besides having a blade to weapon arm angle of anything less then 135 degrees being considered a preparation (which is in place due to the different scoring mechanics of the weapons), where in the rules that govern the validity or priority of a hit is there any difference between Foil and Sabre? ROW should be called the same way for both. From the judging I've watched over the years this is not the case. Admittedly the higher level the competition you watch the closer the judging becomes, but even there it seems to me there is more then just personal interpretations causing discrepancies between judging of the two weapons.

[Mr Epee]

Only an epeeist can properly referee epee.

- Extreme concentration for extended periods of time
- Absorbing the whole picture
- Extensive knowledge of the rules
- Being at least as smart as the competitors
- Understanding the importance of each touch

PS - If you don't prefer refereeing epee, then I would prefer that you refrain from doing so.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I prefer epee.

[TooLoftheDeviL]

Originally Posted by Anhierd

where in the rules that govern the validity or priority of a hit is there any difference between Foil and Sabre? ROW should be called the same way for both.

Sabre also has the added fun about the front foot landing being the end of that attack.

[oso97]

Originally Posted by TooLoftheDeviL

Sabre also has the added fun about the front foot landing being the end of that attack.

Yes. And anyone that considers foil and sabre ROW to be be the same should take another look at the rules.

That being said, as a coach, I've got no problem i