Stewart Smalley out of control

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Gustafsson´s corollary:
Whenever a discussion not starting about Clinton, Lewinsky, lies and perjury delve into those topics, the discussion has become useless.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[RITFencing]

Sex is the only reason that people remember Clinton's lies and quickly forget the other ones--in spite of the death tolls the others may have brought.

I've got to go with epee pox here. Lies and perjury are two different things, and while neither one should really be tolerated, if we begin to give tacit permission for perjury, the whole judicial system goes right out the window.

[Larrison]

I've got to go with epee pox here. Lies and perjury are two different things, and while neither one should really be tolerated, if we begin to give tacit permission for perjury, the whole judicial system goes right out the window.

I've been keeping quiet on this one, but I'm going in with this as well. The impeachment trial with Clinton was not about sex, it was if the President of the United States, who has some immunity from prosecution from the position of his office, committed grand jury perjury, civil suit perjury, obstruction of justice, and abuse of power. The majority of the House of Representative voted there was enough evidence to put him on trial in the US Senate (that was "impeachment"), but the result of the trial was less than 2/3rd of the Senate concluded that this was enough to remove him from office so he could be prosecuted under law. He did receive a majority vote (55-45) that he had committed perjury, but this was not enough for a Senate conviction. The obstruction of justice charge deadlocked at 50-50.

*IF* BillC has stood up and said "Yes I did it with Monica and it was wrong and I won't do it again", nothing would or could have been done legally. On the other hand, Hillary probably would have killed the man... (and I'm joking, OK?) But the issue was that he screwed up by falsely giving testimony and it looks like he urged others to also do the same.

Perjury, particularly by a high elected official who is given some immunity to the law by the position of his office, is always serious. He's given that position through the trust of the citizens, and he should never do anything to damage that. He is held to a higher standard.

BillC's perjury evidence was enough that his Arkansas law license was revoked, and he was suspended from the bar of the US Supreme Court. He also was given a $90,000 fine for contempt of court in the Federal courts, and was fined over $900,000 in a civil case related to this (the exact terms were never disclosed, I don't believe).

And if Cheney or Rove or any one else in Federal office has committed perjury, I want to hold them to an equivalent standard. Agnew (a Republican) was booted in around 1970 for things he did when he was not in Federal office -- so if these bozo's did something while in Federal office, appointed or not, then the same standards hold.

[Amadeus]

q: why can't republicans make jokes like this?
a: because the republicans aren't comedians. and they aren't trying to be funny. if rush limbaugh was a comedian, i would laugh if he made a funny ad.

q: how come al franken can say anything he wants under the guise of humor?
a: because the vast majority of us can tell what is funny and what is political commentary. you, apparently, can not. here's an example:

al saying that his book is on sale - political/serious
people saying that his book was funny - political/serious
people saying that his book was informative - political/serious
man saying that he ordered 5 copies of the book - funny
extremely ignorant stereotypical republican hating the book and getting beaten up - funny

i think that's pretty straightforward

q: [whine]meanhh, democrats and minorities can make jokes and we can't[/whine]
a: not true, but when you're anti affirmative action, rich, and white, you're probably going to have to be a little more careful about the jokes you make. if you were a comedian, you would know that. but you're not. if you've noticed, for example, comedians that make black people/white people jokes tend to have a certain skin characteristic in common. and beleive it or not, white comedians don't complain about this. they deal with it. hell, they're the ones who can get normal jobs.

q: why are we talking about clinton?
a: you got me! it sure seems to me that this argument ran its course about 7 years ago, and everyone made up their mind 3 years ago, minimum. it's certainly not like anyone's changing their minds.

q: you're a very wise man
a: thank you.

[Have At You]

q: you're a very wise man
a: thank you.

beat me to it.

[Inquartata]

Man. I gave up on that about 2 paragraphs into that last post.

Amadeus, no offense meant, but there's a reason that standard English uses capital letters: clarity...

[Amadeus]

Man. I gave up on that about 2 paragraphs into that last post.

Amadeus, no offense meant, but there's a reason that standard English uses capital letters: clarity...

SORRY ABOUT THAT I'LL TRY TO KEEP THAT IN MIND FOR NEXT TIME.

No, in all seriousness, i'll try harder. It's mostly a bad habit.

[achilleus]

Man. I gave up on that about 2 paragraphs into that last post.

Amadeus, no offense meant, but there's a reason that standard English uses capital letters: clarity...

And ya know what else? I couldn't help but think, wouldn't a wise man know that some of the questions posed were actually statements and not questions?

[Araznal]

To get back on topic here...

I've had the "pleasure" of overhearing AirAmerica as my Grandmother listens to it like it's Gospel (God help her, she scares me). I have to say that the programming is just as frightening as Rush Limbaugh's ranting. These people are talking about Bush and co. and I believe that given the chance, would kill every last one of them because they hate them so much. I don't even say that about Rush. I mean, the staff there are so angry in every way, and I'm very frightened that they will get their hands on some nuclear device and "take matters into their own hands". The far left is just as scary as the far right, and when they repeatedly come close to actually threatening people, I take that very seriously. (how ridiculous is it that Jerry Springer is the most level-headed of these people? I mean, I actually respect him despite selling out for that crappy show, but still...)

However, political satire is a way of venting that anger. I agree with Jason here (big surprise...) about the weak using comedy to get some kind of upper hand. The reason it hasn't been used by the right is because they associate with Christianity, and, as we all know, Christ said unto the masses, "and ye shall never laugh again."

Just to be fair, I'll make a joke about Jews so nobody has to get all pissed at me here:

And when Joshua circled the city of Jericho the seventh time, he stopped at the front gate with all the Israelites, and they cvetched until the walls came crumbling down.

[Amadeus]

I've had the "pleasure" of overhearing AirAmerica as my Grandmother listens to it like it's Gospel (God help her, she scares me). I have to say that the programming is just as frightening as Rush Limbaugh's ranting. These people are talking about Bush and co. and I believe that given the chance, would kill every last one of them because they hate them so much. I don't even say that about Rush. I mean, the staff there are so angry in every way, and I'm very frightened that they will get their hands on some nuclear device and "take matters into their own hands". The far left is just as scary as the far right, and when they repeatedly come close to actually threatening people, I take that very seriously. (how ridiculous is it that Jerry Springer is the most level-headed of these people? I mean, I actually respect him despite selling out for that crappy show, but still...)

I agree. the liberal media has an insanity of their own. And when i read his books, i certainly take everything al franken says with a certain amount of skepticism. But the anger and stupidity is certainly reciprocated by the right wing lunatics, and they have a 24 hour news network as opposed to a dying radio program.

And plus, though al franken is a lunatic sometimes, this ad was completely independant of his political opinions.

(Inquartata, you should be pleased to know that i capitalized this just for you)

[Gav]

Man. I gave up on that about 2 paragraphs into that last post.

Amadeus, no offense meant, but there's a reason that standard English uses capital letters: clarity...

Rep to Inq.

[Inquartata]

I agree. the liberal media has an insanity of their own. And when i read his books, i certainly take everything al franken says with a certain amount of skepticism. But the anger and stupidity is certainly reciprocated by the right wing lunatics, and they have a 24 hour news network as opposed to a dying radio program.

And plus, though al franken is a lunatic sometimes, this ad was completely independant of his political opinions.

(Inquartata, you should be pleased to know that i capitalized this just for you)

Thanks. Although, see bold emphases above...

We appreciate the good-faith effort, though.

[mrbiggs]

Thanks. Although, see bold emphases above...

We appreciate the good-faith effort, though.

The 'A' in 'Amadeus' stands for "half-assed"

[Amadeus]

The 'A' in 'Amadeus' stands for "half-assed"

well the b in mrbiggs stands for shut up.

although i guess it was a kind of halfassed effort.

[mrbiggs]

well the b in mrbiggs stands for shut up.

although i guess it was a kind of halfassed effort.

That retort was pretty poor, too.