most profitable fencing club

[CvilleFencer]

One of the clubs in our area, Virginia Academy of Fencing (the same one Saberman mentions), claims to be the largest fencing club in the world with over 800 members, some of which are competitive. Their dues are fairly expensive (compared to the area) and they make money on pretty much everything (floor fees, equipment rental, private lessons, membership, etc), even charging for participation in club only fencing tourneys ($30ish dollars, double for late entries IIRC) and have a huge markup, like 200+% on the fencing gear they resale to their members to new to know better that to pay $100 for a BG foil. They have a dedicated large facility and at least three good professional (as in this is their job) coaches on staff.

I would say they are a pretty good example of one way to a profitable fencing club based just on sheer numbers and their profit oriented philosophy although I don't know how close to the "top" they are as far as making money.

I for one am not into the huge jugernaught of fencing philosophy. I am not sure huge "Walmarts of fencing" are where the sport is going or for that matter are even good for the sport. The club I mention, hard to argue with the fact that they have made fencing a profitable business but a lot of fencers around here refer to them as the factory since they crank out tons of fencers, a few of which are around for more than one season. Of course the ones that are tend to be strong fencers and all clubs have attrition but I have the personal feeling that if fencing is approached in to business like of a manner or if the classes are two large the love of the sport does not get passed onto the fencers. It becomes something they do for a little while and move on like piano lessons or ballet. I look at clubs that are much smaller than some of the huge ones that turn out truly gifted fencers and even their fencers who may never be champions have a love of the sport that shines through. I don't feel that I see that as much in the huge clubs. Of course being the coach of a little bitsy not for profit club that may be wishful thinking/personal prejudice on my part!

Personally for me and my club I would rather stay small and affordable to my community than become a for profit machine that has fencing as a product instead of an art/labor of love.

[Fencing Jesus]

Being a christian is a matter of faith, and faith alone.

[fluidfencer]

There might be some objective measures such as revenue per student, indexed to the cost of living in a particular city. Maybe take net earnings (amount going toward reserves for a non-profit), add back coaching, and take that as a percent of total revenues (sort of a gross profit margin). That amount per student is a good one too.

Problem is, the Wal-mart approach with a very big club can work just as well as the boutique approach if done correctly.

What's REALLY important is that you know the numbers for your own club. What is the financial impact of adding one student? What is the average time they will remain with the club? How does the revenue per student vary based on their level within the club, and what is your current and target mix of students to get the highest/best level of profitability? What does it cost you to lose a student, and what do you have to do/spend to get a new one? Lots more... I need to do a better job with some of that for our club too.

[counterattack]

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

The club I mention, hard to argue with the fact that they have made fencing a profitable business but a lot of fencers around here refer to them as the factory since they crank out tons of fencers, a few of which are around for more than one season. Of course the ones that are tend to be strong fencers and all clubs have attrition but I have the personal feeling that if fencing is approached in to business like of a manner or if the classes are two large the love of the sport does not get passed onto the fencers.

Our local example of this is www.calfencingacademy.com. They are large and growing, they are now opening two new clubs in the area, and they are profitable. I have know idea how much they are making, but you can definitely see what the for-profit attitude does for them. They never are short on new fencers, they advertise, they invest in finding more fencers and then they expand their facilities to house the new fencers. Lots of people don't like their owner, and there may be good reasons, but no one can argue that from the business point of view they seem to be running the best ship in the Bay. That said, they also help the other clubs unintentionally. Their dues are high and their ability to hold on to their fencers long term is low, so their fencers (the few who stick to it long term) end up populating the other clubs in the area. I would love to know how well the company actually does, because for the next decade or so (as long as the supply of decent coaches from the former Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc holds out) their model could be reproduced.

[Larrison]

Originally Posted by counterattack

Our local example of this is www.calfencingacademy.com. They are large and growing, they are now opening two new clubs in the area, and they are profitable. [ ... ].

*chuckling* I'm sorry.. but I looked at their web page. Not bad.. but they have a listing for a "Pro Shop".....

I mean, this isn't like golf or tennis where there's a club pro who gives a few lessons and offers advice on clubs... and not a sport where there are "pros" really.... Just struck me as amusing they'd not call it the "Armory", and call it the "Pro Shop" instead... They have a listing for an Armory too....

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by el chucko

After following this link, I think it's pretty funny that a featured member of Christian Fencers is named Princess Rashid.

I got to see her fence at the Crescent City Open one year in women's Foil. She is pretty darn good...but ultimately was beaten by one of Birmingham Fencing Club's insanely good coaches.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Larrison

*chuckling* I'm sorry.. but I looked at their web page. Not bad.. but they have a listing for a "Pro Shop".....

I mean, this isn't like golf or tennis where there's a club pro who gives a few lessons and offers advice on clubs... and not a sport where there are "pros" really.... Just struck me as amusing they'd not call it the "Armory", and call it the "Pro Shop" instead... They have a listing for an Armory too....

They serve different needs. The Pro Shop is for equipment, the Armory is for equipment repair. These aren't the same, it's reasonable to call them different things.

-B

[guardup]

We have a number of coaches. But you are correct - we are not a club that focuses on competition. We never claimed to be. If you have any questions or concerns about our training or coaches and you live only 2 towns away, I would like to invite you to stop by and talk with us.

Meghan Gardner
Director
Guard Up Inc.

Originally Posted by epeemike81

speaking as somebody from the same area as guard up, it should be noted that they are NOT a competitive club. if you look at results from the New England division ( http://www.neusfa.org ) you will see that there are no results attributed to members of that "club". now, understand, please, that I'm not saying "no results" but meaning bad results. I mean NO RESULTS. Not one. No competitive members.

btw, does anybody know who that instructor is? I have no idea who coaches at Guard Up, and I live two towns over. their website doesn't say who (if anybody) coaches there. when's the last time you saw a reputable club which didn't put a coach's bio on their website?

-m

[Allen Evans]

It's certainly one business model (and it seems to be working for them): "Fencing as entertainment".

[keith]

Am I the only one who suspects a slight prejudice that the only 'good club' is one that produces competitive fencers (as opposed to fencers who merely compete one supposes)?

....heaven forbid a club might promote fencing as a way to excercise and socialise .

[guardup]

As our website states, we are not a school that focuses on competition. We are, however, a school that has produced some well-rounded kids, teens and adults who fence.

Or focus is on fencing as a form of exercise, a sport that draws in highly intelligent people who desire a community that shares their interests, and swordsmanship as a method for teaching kids valuable life skills such as teamwork, leadership, communication and creative problem sovling.

We are not looking for competitive coaches or competitive fencers (although, we have had both who happen to enjoy our environment). We are looking for coaches who are interested in the people who fence more than the trophies.


Meghan Gardner
Director
Guard Up Inc
www.guardup.com

[rory]

There are many different types of fencer, and many different types of coach.

Some are purely competitive - it might be said they're only interested in trophies, but I'd argue that they're more usually interested in success, competition and winning. These things are not necessarily synonomous.

Some are purely social in nature - they're there to chat to friends, do some exercise and then go to the pub. Sometimes these fencers graduate to become coaches with the same philosphy.

And some, and I've found that these are the most successful, are those who love fencing. Not just winning, not just socialising, but actually fencing. In my opinion, these make the best coaches, and the best fencers. You can often recognise them because they have good jobs, families *and* successful fencing careers. They're in it because they enjoy it.
(Salvatore Sanzo is married and practises law, in addition to being World Champion. Timea Nagy, 2xOlympic WE Champ, has a family, not just a training schedule. Etc.)

Look for coaches, and club mates, who love fencing, not just coaches who love people, or who love success.

[dilznik]

Originally Posted by Fencing Jesus

Jesus would use the flick.

I think so too.

And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders
Luke 15:4-6

Must be a flick.