Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

ReverseLunge · 10-23-2005, 01:39 AM

Are any of you into little economy cars or hybrid cars? Well I am. I am a really big fan of these cute little gas savers and I am happy to annouce that the Honda Jazz will be available in America and Canada early 2006.

I know it this thread is stupid but I love economy and hybrid cars. Good for the earth and good on gas.

I also love Kei cars and wish I could buy one here.

Keicar (K-car), also called keijidōsha (in Japanese) is a Japanese category of small automobiles, including passenger cars and also vans and pick-up trucks for commercial use. They are mainly sold in Japan, because there are some tax and insurance relaxations and an exemption from the usual requirement of certification of park space that one has adequate parking space at his or her home or has contract for a parking spot.

These relatively relaxed standards came from the post-World War II days when most Japanese were too poor to buy a full sized car, yet had more than enough money to buy a motorcycle. To promote the growth of car industry as well as to offer an alternative delivery method to small business and shop owners, Keicar standards were created. In Japan, the cars feature yellow licence plates, earning them the name "yellow-plate cars" in English-speaking circles (black numbers on yellow background for private use and yellow numbers on black background for commercial use). The keicar field is very competitive, so that manufacturers are in a constant race to provide better performance, utility, and fun within the keicar regulations, driving the pace of technological innovation, which then spreads to the rest of their automobile line. As a result, keicars are available with turbo-charged engines, automatic transmission, continuously variable transmission, 4-Wheel-Drive, Hybrid Gasoline-Electric engines, air condition systems as well as car navigation systems.

ReverseLunge · 10-23-2005, 01:53 AM

Here are some K car pictures.

http://www.japanoid.com/

What is a K-Car?
Japan is a modern industrial nation with almost zero natural resources. So wisely in 1949, the Japanese government started giving tax breaks to cars of certain size and efficiency. These cars became known as Kei Jidosha (Kei-Car, K-car), which is Japanese for "light vehicle".

According to regulations, K-Cars must be less than 3.4 metres long and 1.48 metres wide. This is shorter than a new Mini, and not as wide as a Toyota Echo hatchback. Their engines are also regulated to be less than 660cc with no more than 64 horsepower. By comparison, a Canadian Smartcar has 42 horsepower, a 1976 VW Bus- 32.

The K-Car is very popular in Japan. The key to this popularity hasn't been just the tax breaks; it's the fuel economy. These cars have souped-up motorcycle engines with some of the most sophisticated turbo, superchargers, and dual overhead cams but they skimp at the pumps. Although the Kei-car regulations have changed over the years, Japanese manufacturers have had more than 50 years to learn how to get the most of every regulated square millimeter. Time to take advantage of it.

LaBelleCordiere · 10-23-2005, 03:00 AM

To tell you the truth, I haven't researched those kinds of autos very much...I don't think I could stuff my 15 year old into one, let alone the other two kids, my hubby, my 2 dogs and all our gear. *sigh* I would LOVE to drive a mini, though...just because they look cool.

ReverseLunge · 10-23-2005, 04:58 AM

Then you should stick with your big SUV. Let's see what's gonnas happen when gas goes up more

LUDICROUS · 10-23-2005, 05:09 AM

Man I hope I'm alive when ALL the oil runs out.

What a day that will be! The end of an era. I'd laugh if the next gen fuel (Whatever it is) wasn't compatible with airliners - what a SCRAP HEAP that could be!

ReverseLunge · 10-23-2005, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

Man I hope I'm alive when ALL the oil runs out.

What a day that will be! The end of an era. I'd laugh if the next gen fuel (Whatever it is) wasn't compatible with airliners - what a SCRAP HEAP that could be!

Eventhough I love econoboxes I pray fro the end of the automobile age. The earth is being destroyed by cars. I'm really scared. I seriously don't think we will last another 100 years at this rate.

glowstix · 10-23-2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

Are any of you into little economy cars or hybrid cars?

definitely...there ought to be a law against driving SUV's..

Slim · 10-23-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

Man I hope I'm alive when ALL the oil runs out.

What a day that will be! The end of an era. I'd laugh if the next gen fuel (Whatever it is) wasn't compatible with airliners - what a SCRAP HEAP that could be!

Yeah, that would be real funny.

End of an era? How about the end of life as you know it. The entire world revolves around petroleum, and its going to take more than your lifetime to wean the world off of it. Especially with all the environmentalists who would rather protect the piping plover than construct windfarms.

Slim · 10-23-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowstix

definitely...there ought to be a law against driving SUV's..

Why is that?

So, I think there should be a law against the econ-death-boxes. If you hit a big enough pot-hole in one, you risk serious injury, and my insurance premiums go up.

mrbiggs · 10-23-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim

End of an era? How about the end of life as you know it. The entire world revolves around petroleum, and its going to take more than your lifetime to wean the world off of it. Especially with all the environmentalists who would rather protect the piping plover than construct windfarms.

How so? We have enough coal to give us enough electricity for at least 50 years, IIRC. Of course, there will less transportation, and therefore I think that the suburban system will fall apart. So now you live closer to your job and you can't drive across the state in a day. What's the difference?

mrbiggs · 10-23-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim

Why is that?

Well, I can't speak for glowstix, but I strongly suspect that he feels as I do, which is that the design of SUVs causes them to get very low gas milage without any significant gains in speed, handling, carrying capacaity, or nearly anything else.

achilleus · 10-23-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim

Yeah, that would be real funny.

End of an era? How about the end of life as you know it. The entire world revolves around petroleum, and its going to take more than your lifetime to wean the world off of it. Especially with all the environmentalists who would rather protect the piping plover than construct windfarms.

Damn those environmentalists! With all their crazy talk of alternative fuels, and conservation. Crazy fools. Don't they realize that the earth is just one big oil mine for us to burn up!

Slim · 10-23-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

How so? We have enough coal to give us enough electricity for at least 50 years, IIRC. Of course, there will less transportation, and therefore I think that the suburban system will fall apart. So now you live closer to your job and you can't drive across the state in a day. What's the difference?

You think petroleum is only used for electricity? Take a look around where you sit. Virtually every piece of plastic you see is derived from petroleum.

Are you ok with more mining? Nuclear Power? Ugly windfarms everywhere? There are economically viable alternatives to reduce the dependency on petroleum, but many of the options are severly limited by the enviro-police.

achilleus · 10-23-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim

Why is that?

So, I think there should be a law against the econ-death-boxes. If you hit a big enough pot-hole in one, you risk serious injury, and my insurance premiums go up.

Actually, they should just make laws to regulate SUV's as they regulate other cars...

Currently the SUV falls into the light truck category, and thus can fit into many loopholes...

For example, if you use your SUV for work (in almost any fashion), you can get a bigger tax break than if you buy a hybrid. Why? Because the govenment gives tax breaks for light trucks to help out, in theory, farmers and other small businesses. When the law was enacted, they had no idea of an SUV boom that would have massive amounts of single car drivers commuting to and from work and going to meetings using their SUV.

Another law that should apply is the one, I forget the name, that requires cars to get a certain mileage per gallon. The law was enacted during/after the oil shortage of the 70's, and cover only cars. Light trucks were less than 20% of the total cars on the road, and thus the effect they had on gas was almost zero.

And a third law that should definitely apply is the window tint laws. Again, the SUV masquerading as a light work truck.

Now, SUV's are great if you need it, but most people don't, and the source of the issue is the single car driver going to work in his/her huge gas guzzling SUV.

mrbiggs · 10-23-2005, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim

Are you ok with more mining? Nuclear Power? Ugly windfarms everywhere? There are economically viable alternatives to reduce the dependency on petroleum, but many of the options are severly limited by the enviro-police.

I'm not, but it's not like life will come to an end.

And I did forget about petroleum products, but I think we can live without them.

Slim · 10-23-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by achilleus

Actually, they should just make laws to regulate SUV's as they regulate other cars...

Currently the SUV falls into the light truck category, and thus can fit into many loopholes...

For example, if you use your SUV for work (in almost any fashion), you can get a bigger tax break than if you buy a hybrid. Why? Because the govenment gives tax breaks for light trucks to help out, in theory, farmers and other small businesses. When the law was enacted, they had no idea of an SUV boom that would have massive amounts of single car drivers commuting to and from work and going to meetings using their SUV.

Another law that should apply is the one, I forget the name, that requires cars to get a certain mileage per gallon. The law was enacted during/after the oil shortage of the 70's, and cover only cars. Light trucks were less than 20% of the total cars on the road, and thus the effect they had on gas was almost zero.

And a third law that should definitely apply is the window tint laws. Again, the SUV masquerading as a light work truck.

Now, SUV's are great if you need it, but most people don't, and the source of the issue is the single car driver going to work in his/her huge gas guzzling SUV.

There is absolutely no reason that requiring automobile manufacturers to steadily increase the MPG in engines can't be required. GW had the chance to do it, but didnt. The technology is there. I'd love it if my Explorer got 30 MPG.

I just dont like it when folks do the knee jerk "There should be a law against <whatever they dont like> "

achilleus · 10-23-2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim

There is absolutely no reason that requiring automobile manufacturers to steadily increase the MPG in engines can't be required. GW had the chance to do it, but didnt. The technology is there. I'd love it if my Explorer got 30 MPG.

I just dont like it when folks do the knee jerk "There should be a law against <whatever they dont like> "

Our current issue with oil and cars is the result of many things, and one of those is legislation that is far behind current trends.

But I totally agree with you on knee jerk reactions whether it's against cars, or just dismissing environmental issues...

PeterGustafsson · 10-23-2005, 02:39 PM

Hi!

No law is required - just taxes. Over here, the gas costs some 6-7 $/gallon, which takes care of excess SUV´s.

We have no local oil pumping companies to lobby against those taxes. OTOH, our real estate taxes are much lower than in USA.

The mechanical engineer in me does not like the SUV. They consume a lot of resources, but do not produce in proportion to that. A good engineer is supposed to construct and design stuff that gives a lot of output for each input unit, and the SUV goes against that ethos.

Furthermore, in car crashes involving SUVs and ordinary cars, the people in the latter often get badly hurt, even if the driver of the former is the negligent or reckless part.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

achilleus · 10-23-2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

Hi!

No law is required - just taxes. Over here, the gas costs some 6-7 $/gallon, which takes care of excess SUV´s.

We have no local oil pumping companies to lobby against those taxes. OTOH, our real estate taxes are much lower than in USA.

The mechanical engineer in me does not like the SUV. They consume a lot of resources, but do not produce in proportion to that. A good engineer is supposed to construct and design stuff that gives a lot of output for each input unit, and the SUV goes against that ethos.

Furthermore, in car crashes involving SUVs and ordinary cars, the people in the latter often get badly hurt, even if the driver of the former is the negligent or reckless part.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

If the US had similar public transportation as in Europe, I would be all for taxing gas heavier. We don't, and as result, people are dependent on their cars, much more so than in Europe.

And really, all these laws I suggested exist for passenger cars, but light trucks have been exempt for several outdated reasons. Two of which are:

light trucks were a small segment of the total cars in the US at the time of the legislation. Now a days, SUV's are the majority.

light trucks were generally used for work purposes, so the government wanted to give incentives to businesses.

Slim · 10-23-2005, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

Hi!

No law is required - just taxes. Over here, the gas costs some 6-7 $/gallon, which takes care of excess SUV´s.

We have no local oil pumping companies to lobby against those taxes. OTOH, our real estate taxes are much lower than in USA.

The mechanical engineer in me does not like the SUV. They consume a lot of resources, but do not produce in proportion to that. A good engineer is supposed to construct and design stuff that gives a lot of output for each input unit, and the SUV goes against that ethos.

Furthermore, in car crashes involving SUVs and ordinary cars, the people in the latter often get badly hurt, even if the driver of the former is the negligent or reckless part.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

Yes, let's tax people into compliance, then use the money for a health care system!