Beginner Picking a Weapon

[Matchaz]

Hello everyone. I am new to the site and to fencing in general and I had a few questions for the experienced fencers out there. I have read through the forums a bit and I know what is going to happen when I ask this, but...

Which weapon(s) should I go with? I am hoping to get actual feedback (and epee rules, foil sucks does not count). What are the real differences between the weapons? Would I have trouble fencing more than one style? Which is the most physically demanding? Which is the best for a beginner to start with? What tactics/abilities does each emphasize?

Thanks for the help. I know this is an ongoing discussion, and I know everyone has their personal favorite, but I would appreciate as much unbiased information as I can get.

[oso97]

Which weapon(s) should I go with? I am hoping to get actual feedback (and epee rules, foil sucks does not count). What are the real differences between the weapons? Would I have trouble fencing more than one style? Which is the most physically demanding? Which is the best for a beginner to start with? What tactics/abilities does each emphasize?

Check out this thread .... particularly some of the later posts.
http://www.fencing.net/forums/fencin...on/t10614.html

[D'Art]

In my opinion (and probably only in my opinion) sabre has the best footwork, epee is the most tactical (due to the hit-'em-without-getting-hit-yourself thing), and foil somewhere in the middle (ie less tactical than epee, but has better footwork, and more tactical than sabre, but the footwork is generally not quite as good). Foil is also the original practise weapon, so by definition has to be in the middle somewhere.Having said that, have a play with all three and whichever one you like the best, that's probably the weapon for you.

Disclaimer - I'm a foilist, so my comments might not be entirely unbiased.

[ThatReallyHurt]

I'm a foilist too, so take this with a grain of salt.

Around here, there are a lot more people who have good coaching experience with foil than with the other two weapons. The clubs all seem to have much larger (and in better shape) foil kit collections.

This probably isn't going to help you either, but remember that you can try all three out at your leisure - you don't have to stick with one for life. A number of clubs also start you out on foil first, but let you branch out later.

I've fenced epee a few times against the more experienced epeeists in my club, and I find it really neat, but a little frustrating when they're hitting me in the hand and shin, that sort of thing... I think foil (and sabre, for that matter) are maybe a little more forgiving with point control when you start out - especially if you expect to drill or bout against people who are much better than you are.

Just my two cents.

[JackOfHearts]

With the classes I take at the local community college, they start you off on foil. Once you pass the beginning class, then they cover epee and saber. Though on the friday night club meetings we're free to try any of the three at our leisure, but the overall emphasis is on foil. That being said, I think its the best weapon for the beginner to pick up the basics on before moving onto epee or saber, but that's just the way I was taught.

[Matchaz]

Thanks, that was very interesting and I learned a lot about the sport, but you give me way to much credit. Most of that was too far over my little beginner head, and I am no closer to choosing a weapon (though I am confident I could choose a training style now) than before.

I have some idea now on the nature of each weapon, and what to start with; foil seems to be the consensus for beginners, and I will certainly be trying all three. But given the somewhat limited access to instruction and materials, I would like to make an informed choice on what weapon to ask for instruction on. Getting to the heart of the matter, I would like to buy my own equipment and I am on a college student's budget. Fencing with the other novices in my class, I fear doesn't give me an accurate perception of the nature of each weapon.

Remember I am learning fencing at a public, state run, college...in Idaho. Now with that in mind try not to overestimate my grasp of the sport.

Thanks again.

[LUDICROUS]

I never knew there was a Moscow in Idaho! Awesome.

[Matchaz]

oops, my last comment was meant in reply to the thread posted after my initial message. It just took me a long time to post because I was writing it during class (bad habit). To the people who posted while I was responding, thanks.

I was leaning epee, for the speed/ accuracy, but the more I fence foil the more I enjoy the right of way rules (though at this point I still don't fully undertstand them). I haven't had a chance to try sabre yet, but it doesn't really interest me as much as the other two.

D'Art what did you mean about footwork? Is it not important in epee (I ask because mine is horrible, I trip over my feet when walking, let alone when someone is trying to stab me)

Oh and Luda, there is a Moscow, Rome, Paris, and I believe a London in Idaho. And yes it is awesome, and with probably twice the vodka consumption as its Russian counterpart.

[achilleus]

OK, first to be a good fencer in any weapon requires good footwork, bladework, creativity, speed, and accuracy.*

The difference is in the application.

Due to the conventions and the ability to hit with edge, sabre is fast and aggressive. If you are defensive minded or slow, you're at a huge disadvantge. At the same time, using only your fingers to manipulate the weapon requires finesse, especially when your moving full speed up and down the strip...

Epee, with no rules, and the whole body target requires much more patience and set up. Defense and counter-offensive actions are much bigger part of game. The speed is about going from zero to warp speed at the right time. The finesse comes from being able to place your point on a small, fast moving target like the hand. It also requires the most upper body strength of the weapons...

Foil, well, foil is changing. It used to be similar to sabre, very aggressive, only since it required hitting with the point and a limited target, it was a little bit of a balance between epee and sabre. Nowadays however, with the new timings, foil is looking much more like a strange version of epee because of the increased role of defense. Most of us are still waiting to see what happens to foil in the near future.

Have fun.


*This is not a complete list, just a quick summation....

[rcmatthews]

I learned/am learning to fence at a public, state run college in Mississippi, but we seem to do allright.

Biased from a sabreur's point of view, I think that it takes more time/effort to become decent at sabre. Beginners have a tendency to hit very hard and are sort of spastic, and I think this is amplified by the nature of sabre.

It also takes a while for most beginners to develop an attacking frame of mind. They are usually fairly gunshy at first.

[RebelFencer]

I'd recommend Epee...personally I love the freedom and the tactics of it.

Sabre is extremely fun to fence as well....foil has become more frusterating as of late.

[mrbiggs]

The only thing not mentioned so far is coaching and competition. Whatever weapon you choose, make sure you can still get good coaching and people to compete against. You may be able to choose any weapon with this limitation, or maybe not, for example, I can't fence sabre partly because I don't have a sabre coach or any sabre fencers near here. (Plus, I don't like sabre...)

[Mizore]

I'm currently fencing Epee. I'm pretty new and still developing footwork and speed. But my coach says I have a good sense of tactics and defense so Epee seems to work well for me. But I am drawn to the intensity of Saber and will give it a try too. Saber is gaining popularity but the bigger club I attend is about 90% Foil. The smaller club I attend is about 50/50 Epee and Foil with a few people considering taking up saber since we now have a coach available.

I would like to reask one of the initial questions. Will the cross over between two weapons cause problems for a relatively new fencer? Is it possible to study two weapons until one emerges as the best choice? What kind of problems should I expect?

Maybe some others can say how they arrived at their final choice. How did you settle on the weapon you are fencing today?

[JackOfHearts]

Maybe some others can say how they arrived at their final choice. How did you settle on the weapon you are fencing today?

Who says you have to settle at just one? Some of the people on here seem to like a foil/sabre combo (including myself). Heck, go for all three if you wish. Personally, I think I should work on epee. I've been doing a lot of foil and saber, and I've always been weak when it came to epee.

[agooding2]

Most coaches will recommend you start with foil. Mine did.

Some say that is tradition, while others say that the limited target area compared to epee, use of point as opposed to edge as with saber and the concept of right of way make foil a good basis for the other weapons.

It seems to be more difficult to add restrictions (like no use of edge or more limited target area or the right of way idea) than to lessen restrictions later.

Also as foils are less stiff than epee's and don't use the edge as in saber, having less bruising/welts means it is less likely to discourage beginners.

-- Andrew

[keith]

The only thing not mentioned so far is coaching and competition. Whatever weapon you choose, make sure you can still get good coaching and people to compete against. You may be able to choose any weapon with this limitation, or maybe not, for example, I can't fence sabre partly because I don't have a sabre coach or any sabre fencers near here. (Plus, I don't like sabre...)

Sage advice.

If you really can't pick between the weapons then choose the one that your coach prefers teaching - generally means you'll get better coaching, more coach input and slightly longer lessons .

Such a huge part of this sport is the quality of coaching and training that (unless you are really lucky and all things are equal) go with what your coach is best at.

[Matchaz]

Thanks for the advice everyone. After careful concideration and watching a few matches online I have decided to go epee/foil. The class I am in now focuses on foil, but later on in the semester we get to pick another weapon to work on. I am definitaly going epee. Once I finish the course and find a club, epee is my weapon of choice.

Why?
I just like the pacing of epee. It is quick, and there are no right of way rules to protect you.

I will likely also stick with foil for the time being, there are just more people around here who fence foil.

Thanks again.