Knee problems, anyone?

[noahz]

Ever since I started using a foam roller to massage my IT Bands, my knee pain went away. Highly recommended.

Google search for "foam roller"

[d-slice]

I've been having a problem that isn't just restricted to fencing, but whenever I try to do anything involving running/jumping. My knee will kinda pop out of place, which doesn't hurt unless I put any weight on that leg. Luckily, I've gotten so that i can feel it when it happens and can hop on the other leg until I'm stable enough to flex my leg in such a way that it pops back in place.

It seems to be stabilized with a knee brace (the kind with the hole for the knee) - unless i'm wearing knickers which sometimes causes the brace to slip up out of place after successive lunges.

With fencing, it's always my left leg (since it's the one turned sideways) but I've had it happen in either one depending on what i'm doing (soccer is especially heinous, sometimes leading to swelling in the knee after it pops out of place).

Has anyone else experienced this particular problem? Any tips for making it stop?

[Sciurus-Rex]

You should wear knee pads. My wife does.

Well there ya go, then! Whatever problem you might have with your knees, El Chucko, will be corrected by wearing knee pads because RL's wife does. That's the definitive word in medical advice.

[Gav]

Go see a professional sports/ orthopaedic consultant. In fact, see two. Make sure you are completely comfortable with what they recommend and that you understand it clearly. Your knees are not be messed with!

As for RICE... Consider freezing some milk instead of water: it melts much more slowly and you can watch more TV!!

All the best with your knees
Nats

This is good advice. Don't see a GP. In fact if you know anyone who can recommend a good sports physio' it's worthwhile checking with them as well. There is no point in seeing a family doctor. I'm lucky in that I live near a physio who has treated the entire scottish squad for the last wee while. She has become a bit of an expert in Fencing related injuries. You really want to speak to someone who has a lot of knowledge about sports related injuries - even an orthopeadic consultant might not be a good idea if they don't have the right background. So get recommendations - especially of the recommendee is a rated athlete or someone you trust.

[esskreemr]

MRI = Magnetic resonance imaging... known in most of Europe as magnetic resonance tomography (MRT)

PT = physiotherapist

IT Bands = Uh... not sure. Maybe the bands that Cisco, Apple, or Microshaft employees put together in their free time.

Iliotibial band

[Gav]

Iliotibial ...

It's all greek to me.

[darius]

The IT band is a fibrous (not muscle) tissue that runs from your hip to the side of your knee on the outside of your thigh. It's connected to the hip flexor and glute.

After years of RICE, bracing, and bad general-practicioner advice, I went and saw a physical therapist who specializes in dancers. I had a lot of IT band tightness, which was causing the kneecap on my back leg to track poorly.

Since the band is non-contractile, it actually responds better to ultrasound and massage than muscle tissue, but it's not very easy to stretch except on a foam roller. Also, I learned that my glute is far tighter than the hip flexor, which causes the IT band to pull assymmetrically.

Also, I was shown how to tape help keep the kneecap in place.

I was a bit skeptical to find that stretching my glute would fix my knee, but after a few months, I'm loving the results. Now I can do much more footwork, and all the pain is where it should be, in the muscles.

darius

[esskreemr]

Excellent advice provided above. See a physician that specializes in sports medicine. It'll save the extra steps that going through a general practitioner would take and have you on the road to recovery quicker. My insurance covers my visits for a $10.00 copay.

It's good to know a few things to help the doctor out, and some problems can be taken care of with ice and rest:
http://www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/kneeprobs/kneeqa.htm

The knee is one of the most complex joints in the human body. So many things can go wrong. Take care of persistent pain. It'll pay off in the long run and may only require a change here or there.
http://www.athleticadvisor.com/image.../Kneeanat2.jpg

[esskreemr]

It's all greek to me.

Actually, probably Latin.

Add to Darius's excellent explanation the fact that the illiopsoas(hip flexors) are at the hip and the tibia is be bone beneath the knee. I think you can figure out, lack of Greek and all, how it got it's name.

Caution! Graphic artist's renditions of muscles:
http://www.spinalhealth.net/inj-itb-pix.html

http://www.spinalhealth.net/inj-itb.html

[fencergal33]

Excellent advice provided above. See a physician that specializes in sports medicine. It'll save the extra steps that going through a general practitioner would take and have you on the road to recovery quicker. My insurance covers my visits for a $10.00 copay.
...

The knee is one of the most complex joints in the human body. So many things can go wrong. Take care of persistent pain. It'll pay off in the long run and may only require a change here or there.
http://www.athleticadvisor.com/image.../Kneeanat2.jpg

You only have a $10.00 copay?!?!?!?! Ugh! I wanna move to wherever you are!


But seriously....I'm really glad this thread resurfaced because my knee (that I've already had surgery on twice) is seriously acting up again. It's really quite painful. Unfortunately, I don't know any good orthopaedic surgeons or PT people in my area (both my surgeries were done in my hometown). What to do? I don't know. I'm not sure if it's worth it or not to go see someone again, and have them tell me it's just arthritis or another aggravation of my old injury. I'm really frustrated with it.

[Greg]

I was recently diagnosed with runner knee as several people noted above. But I think I got it from too much running after a long layoff more so than fencing. I first went to a local clinic who said its tendonitis. Not the case. There was pain above the knee cap and along the sides of the knee. Very painful going up and down stairs or squatting. No pain under the knee fortunately. It did not clear up so I then went to a sports medicine and rehab center at my local hospital. The doctor spent an hour evaluating the injury from every possible angle. It developed because my right knee is slightly bowed and the knee cap does not track straight - a genetic deformity I never noticed. The injury is an inflamation of the tissue. They gave me a set of stretches and exercises to strengthen the thigh muscles without any impact. They also told me to ice for 10-20 minutes three times a day and take ibuprofen to reduce the imflamation which promotes healing. They also set me with the othodist who after another hour evaluation, had custom made inserts for my athletic shoes that will correct the imbalance ($260).

You really need to go to a good sports medicines clinic and see either a doctor or good physical therapist. Do not self treat with braces, etc because unless you know the cause, you very well may do more harm to the area.

Its a pretty common injury for runners. I never knew I had the knee problem but now I know the cause. See your doctor! By the way, someone above said that they fenced through their injury. Get yours checked before you do the same. Mine told me to lay off fencing until it cleared up to prevent further damage. If left untreated, runners knee can easily result in significant cartilidge damage.

[foily]

I had that "knee bubble" feeling from riding a bike, too much too soon I guess and jumping on it and sprinting across interections etc and I got over it by (a) keeping it in lower gears and taking it easy more, and (b) actually doing strengthening exercises, in my case bodyweight lunges (not the fencing lunge, the weight training one, that's streight forward) to more evenly strengthen the muscles. I read a ton on it and it seems a lot of this is how the kneecap tracks, and those forward lunges strengthen the inner side of the "quads". I noticed when I did "sissy squats" with my knees together, doing them kind of knock kneed, I could really hit that inner side of the quad.

I'm abivalent about this too, (and about my spelling) since fencing looks like it's made to be hard on knees, and yet, Ralph Faulkner supposedly got into fencing to help heal a broken knee!

I got out of biking because the fun per hour of time quotient was not there for me, and insane descents wearing glorified underwear just did not seem safe. I'd rather take my chances with the possibility of a broken blade in fencing etc than have my head taken off by a high speed crash or a car. Or a high speed crash with a car!

There are a lot of cyclists who say they had knee problems at first then as time went by their knees got stronger, so it may just take time for the body to accomodate to the extra load.

I think massage may help knees a lot, the French swear by it in bicycle racing and in general, and you can massage your own knees - I try to do it when I remember to work on it and it seems to help.

I think too much too fast is running on the ragged edge of what the body can handle and asking for trouble, I'm in danger of the too much too fast trap myself since I'm a fairly obsessive person. Reminding myself that the body can handle only so much as first and massage etc seem to help me.

my 2c.