10-18-2005, 02:54 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles
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| I don't see how twirling my foil or saber is going to help me in a bout. Looks pretty damn impressive, but it wouldn't translate well in fencing. Although it would be an interesting experiment. See how different styles match up and all.
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10-18-2005, 03:10 AM
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#3 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by JackOfHearts I don't see how twirling my foil or saber is going to help me in a bout. | Those can be are parries and beats.
What about Mexican pinanta hitting techniques? I'm sure those can be used in fencing too. | 
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10-18-2005, 03:24 AM
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#4 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by ReverseLunge Those can be are parries and beats.
What about Mexican pinanta hitting techniques? I'm sure those can be used in fencing too. | Only in saber. 
Though different weapons require different techniques. From what I've read (and odds are I'm completely wrong on this, so don't quote me) the jian is primarily a thrusting weapon, like the foil or epee, though one would weild it much differently then either of those weapons. The Dao would probably be comparable to a saber, though again, different weapons require different techniques. Speed and distance are also important. How would those factor into the equation if it were a matter of fencing sword vs. chinese sword?
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If your hearts not in it, why bother? -Yours truly
Woman was created for our destruction, and it is from her we inherit all our miseries. - Aramis, from The Three Musketeers
All human wisdom is summed up in two words. Wait and Hope. http://www.bash.org/?23396 | |
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10-18-2005, 08:48 AM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Summit, NJ, USA
Posts: 395
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Originally Posted by JackOfHearts I don't see how twirling my foil or saber is going to help me in a bout. Looks pretty damn impressive, but it wouldn't translate well in fencing. Although it would be an interesting experiment. See how different styles match up and all. | The problem with most cross style fights is that we're the only people who like hitting each other with metal. With kendo you get split wood shinai, but just about everyone else uses some kind of foam padded weapons for actual competition as opposed to training where you don't hit each other at full speed/power.
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10-18-2005, 09:03 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Savannah, Ga
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Originally Posted by Christopher J Umbs ...that we're the only people who like hitting each other with metal. | Well, us and people who like a bit (a lot) of kink in their life!
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10-18-2005, 12:37 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,971
| The Chinese sword work I've seen mostly focuses on "forms" (Chinese for "kata"), like in the film clip - in other words, usually single-person drills without anyone hitting anyone else with metal, sword, or rubber. People by and large train to do the forms, not to fight anyone, and compete in form categories (like this guy seems to be doing) rather than in bouting or fighting. You can get just as big a trophy as the kumite guys, without getting a broken nose or knocked out tooth!
I studied Northern Shaolin style and learned a sword form - much simpler than the advanced one this guy is doing - with broadsword. What may not be apparent is that some of the sweeping moves with the unarmed hand are parries. You may ask yourself "why would anyone train to parry steel with the unarmed hand?", which was a question I asked my sifu (teacher). It's a very good way to have your hand cut off. Another thing is the business of pointing the unarmed hand with two fingers extended. That, according to my sifu was to "extend the chi" towards the opponent, but I think it's another good way to get your hand cut off.
All this is by way of saying that, while this sword system is athletic and great to watch, it's not oriented towards practical sword fighting. This isn't to insult it or to say it has no applicability, nor am I saying there aren't more practical styles - but this one is not intended for real sword fighting.
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10-18-2005, 12:50 PM
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#8 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,501
| I'm pretty sure "form" is not a chinese word, but rather an english term for the coreographed fighting routines found in many easter martial arts (kata, poomse, whatever.)
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10-18-2005, 01:28 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,971
| For sure not - my mistake. I should have said "the word used in Kung fu schools instead of the Japanese word 'kata''".
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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10-18-2005, 05:36 PM
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#10 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,501
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Originally Posted by jeff For sure not - my mistake. I should have said "the word used in Kung fu schools instead of the Japanese word 'kata''". | 'scool, I'm just a bit of a jerk 
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"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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10-18-2005, 05:42 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,997
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Originally Posted by jeff I studied Northern Shaolin style and learned a sword form - much simpler than the advanced one this guy is doing . | Well certainly you did a way simpler form. I do not believe that a westerner can preform the advanced chinese forms. Westerners just don't have the body type or right twitch muscles. You will never be able to see a white guy or girl doing those type of moves at that speed. Just not possible. | |
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10-18-2005, 05:45 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
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| Heh, heh - only RL would set up as a troll on his own non-troll threads! 
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10-18-2005, 05:48 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,997
| Dude I'm not trolling. If you can show me any video of a white doing that stuff then I'm wrong. Why do you think the Orientals are so good at that kung fu stuff? Because they invented it and designed it to suit their body types. | |
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10-18-2005, 06:01 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,971
| Then how come then the best Sumo wrestler is black, huh?
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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10-18-2005, 06:04 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,997
| I don't know much about sumo. It's not the same as the kung fu stuff. I would think that its all about the weight. And if you are talking about the Samoan sumo wrestler then he is no longer the best. The best guy now is a Jap. | |
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10-18-2005, 10:18 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Japan
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Originally Posted by ReverseLunge I don't know much about sumo. It's not the same as the kung fu stuff. I would think that its all about the weight. And if you are talking about the Samoan sumo wrestler then he is no longer the best. The best guy now is a Jap. | Sorry you are both wrong, the current Yokozuna is Mongolian. The past 2 have been Hawaiian (Samoan origins). Now their is one guy who MAY become Yokozuna who is Bulgarian. OK now you may go back to your insane arguing.
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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WON'T YOU BUY MY TACTICAL WHEEL!!!???? | |
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10-18-2005, 10:35 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper Sorry you are both wrong, the current Yokozuna is Mongolian. The past 2 have been Hawaiian (Samoan origins). Now their is one guy who MAY become Yokozuna who is Bulgarian. OK now you may go back to your insane arguing. | Do you know if the Japanese are upset about foreigners doing Sumo? If I was Japanese I think I wouldn't like it. As a non Japanese I hate it. It's like going to Benihanna's and getting one of the Mexican or white chefs. | |
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10-18-2005, 10:48 PM
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#18 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Japan
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Originally Posted by ReverseLunge Do you know if the Japanese are upset about foreigners doing Sumo? If I was Japanese I think I wouldn't like it. As a non Japanese I hate it. It's like going to Benihanna's and getting one of the Mexican or white chefs. | Some are. They are more upset that the foreigners are kicking their asses at it.
Well, how do you feel about Ichiro or Matsui or Nomo playing in your Major League Baseball?
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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WON'T YOU BUY MY TACTICAL WHEEL!!!???? | |
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10-18-2005, 10:53 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper Well, how do you feel about Ichiro or Matsui or Nomo playing in your Major League Baseball? | That's absolutely no problem. Baseball is not a game that is deep in tradition and culture like Sumo. I've seen the foreign Sumo players like the Samoans and the Bolivian guy. They just don't look right. The Samoans are pure fat while the Bolivian guy looks buff and not much belly. | |
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10-18-2005, 11:59 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Japan
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Originally Posted by ReverseLunge That's absolutely no problem. Baseball is not a game that is deep in tradition and culture like Sumo. I've seen the foreign Sumo players like the Samoans and the Bolivian guy. They just don't look right. The Samoans are pure fat while the Bolivian guy looks buff and not much belly. | Most Japanese like having foreigners in Sumo because it shows that the world is interested in Japanese culture. To become a rikishi, you have to undergo a lot of training not only in Sumo, but in Japanese culture, language, history. The pay is crap and the lifestyle is worse. Rikishi have to sacrifice a lot. In many ways, the foreign rikishi are more Japanese than the average Japanese person.
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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WON'T YOU BUY MY TACTICAL WHEEL!!!???? | |
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