Roch has a good idea!

[Army Fencer]

I found an interview with Rene Roch in the Fencing News thread, and I came accross this:

Originally Posted by The Future of Fencing and Preview of Torino by Kevin Mar

The additional places at Olympics; will that be athletes or weapons?
Rene Roch:
I met Jacques Rogge (President of the International Olympic Committee) eight days ago and we talked about increasing the weapons, especially women's weapons. Right now, fencing is allowed 200 athletes, which is roughly 36 per weapon, 24 people on from 8 teams, and then other athletes who gone thru the qualifying paths. Even though the IOC took out two other sports (baseball and softball), they are more likely introducing other sports rather than add to existing sports. We are trying to increase the universality of the sport and quality of athlete. We are now trying to get the athletes who are just short of qualifying for the Olympics, such as the top 20 who are on the FIE points, and get them to the games.

While I think fencing needs 12 events and I am very sorry to see the women get the short end of the stick for two Olympics in a row, I think the idea of expanding the JO (Jeux Olympiques) to include the top 20 in the world is excellent. The move should be easier to accomplish than asking for 6 more medals, and it will improve the competition at the JO.

[noahz]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

I found an interview with Rene Roch in the Fencing News thread, and I came accross this:


While I think fencing needs 12 events and I am very sorry to see the women get the short end of the stick for two Olympics in a row, I think the idea of expanding the JO (Jeux Olympiques) to include the top 20 in the world is excellent. The move should be easier to accomplish than asking for 6 more medals, and it will improve the competition at the JO.

Personally, I would rather see less competitors if it meant more equality for women (e.g. team WF and WS). These last two Olympics have been a disgrace. Are we not in the 21st Century?

[oiuyt]

I agree with Noah. Additionally, I don't see fencing as having as good a chance of getting the top 20 as of getting gender equality. The JO pushes VERY hard for representation from all of the various continents, even at the expense of competitiveness. Pulling in the rest of the top-20 isn't going to help there, if anyone in the top-20 were from an under-represented region they would qualify currently. If the IOC were primarily concerned with keeping up the standards of the competition then we wouldn't have "sprinters" taking 50% longer or swimmers taking 2-3 times as long as the world class athletes on the same track/pool.

-B

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

I agree with Noah. Additionally, I don't see fencing as having as good a chance of getting the top 20 as of getting gender equality.

I agree that we need more medals and that getting more medals is more important than more bodies. I also think that it's a shame that Roch is conceding to 10 events. However, if it isn't possible to get those additional two events, I think that adding more bodies to the competition is a good thing. I see it as being far less politically and financially expensive to allow a few more bodies in the door than to create two more sets medals, unless you think that because of the inequality issue, the IOC will grant the FIE those medals out of the goodness of their hearts.

The Olympics are about representing many countries, but it's also about finding the best runner, boxer, swimmer, fencer in the world. Particularly in epee, where the margins are wider than in foil and sabre, the best fencer may not come from the top 8; it is more likely to come from the top 20.

[umbrella]

I refuse to 'generate' enthusiasm for this bit of information, women are sick of this ****, besides ruining foil fencing, and including a million dollar 'elite' mask for saber fencers; he now ruins the Olympics for women fencers. Roch has a good idea? Maybe it should be "Roch needs a new hairspray"

[Alan]

If the current broken test timings are kept we need 16 events !

4 for Sabre, 4 for Epee, 4 for foil (official timings) and 4 for Foilepee
(broken test timings)

It is true that the women events with the broken test timings
have been specially boring in Leipzig but there is no reason to be sexist.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Army Fencer

The Olympics are about representing many countries, but it's also about finding the best runner, boxer, swimmer, fencer in the world.

You're thinking of the World Championships. The Olympics is about selling blue jeans, soda pop, and McDonalds.

[wflaschka]

Originally Posted by umbrella

I refuse to 'generate' enthusiasm for this bit of information, women are sick of this ****, besides ruining foil fencing, and including a million dollar 'elite' mask for saber fencers; he now ruins the Olympics for women fencers.

For what it's worth, Roch underwent considerable criticism for Women's Epee and Women's Sabre in the first place. He can't also be criticised for destroying them, since he's still trying to get them into the olympics.

In his press conference, here's how it was presented. Roch went to the IOC and pointed out the masks, the wireless, and the increased presence on TV, and asked for more fencing medals, especially since the overall number of medals has been reduced and there are "free" medals floating around. The IOC president said, No, not yet -- those medals may still be put to a new sport.

But the IOC president was amenable to talking about more competitors. Roch's reasoning (presented in his press conference) was that with the current setup, there are situations in which the #32 in the world from North America could get to the olympics, while the #12 in the world from Europe couldn't. The increased numbers would allow fencing to get more of the "best" fencers into the competition, and increase the fencing quality and meaning of the medals.

It sounds like Roch & fencing was "thrown a bone" by the IOC. It's good news but not optimal. If anything, this will make the FIE put more emphasis on TV and watchability because it seems to be a winning proposition with the IOC. The best scenario would be that FIE attention will be turned to TV and wireless, rather than more divisive rules-fiddling... but who knows.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by wflaschka

Roch went to the IOC and pointed out the masks, the wireless, and the increased presence on TV, and asked for more fencing medals, especially since the overall number of medals has been reduced and there are "free" medals floating around. The IOC president said, No, not yet -- those medals may still be put to a new sport.

This reminds me of the way you get a mule to pull a plow. You tie a long stick to his neck, and to the end that protrudes out in front of his nose youaffix a carrot dangling from a string. The mule stet off in pursuit of the carrot, which he will never catch---and which the farmer never really intended to give him.

Hee haw for us, M. Roch.

[umbrella]

Originally Posted by wflaschka

For what it's worth, Roch underwent considerable criticism for Women's Epee and Women's Sabre in the first place. He can't also be criticised for destroying them, since he's still trying to get them into the olympics.

In his press conference, here's how it was presented. Roch went to the IOC and pointed out the masks, the wireless, and the increased presence on TV, and asked for more fencing medals, especially since the overall number of medals has been reduced and there are "free" medals floating around. The IOC president said, No, not yet -- those medals may still be put to a new sport.

But the IOC president was amenable to talking about more competitors. Roch's reasoning (presented in his press conference) was that with the current setup, there are situations in which the #32 in the world from North America could get to the olympics, while the #12 in the world from Europe couldn't. The increased numbers would allow fencing to get more of the "best" fencers into the competition, and increase the fencing quality and meaning of the medals.

It sounds like Roch & fencing was "thrown a bone" by the IOC. It's good news but not optimal. If anything, this will make the FIE put more emphasis on TV and watchability because it seems to be a winning proposition with the IOC. The best scenario would be that FIE attention will be turned to TV and wireless, rather than more divisive rules-fiddling... but who knows.

I would like to see an American Dictator in France. Roach is probably a nice guy, but he's been on the task for so long, I don't think he's got a clear head. No offense about the hairspray thing - speaking of france, can you believe it!!! Total disarray! But back to the subject: as a female, I find it offensive that these high and mighty men have systematically wrecked not only fencing in general, consider all the unnecessary rule changes in the past 5 years - it's a good thing I'm not an olympic-hopeful - one more rule change and I"d get pretty paranoid!!!, but to keep women out of stuff is just plain counterproductive, and smacks of old-timey - french style paternalism, that dates back to Napoleon and the days of slavery. Let's dump the whole thing, bring in an Italian Master Fencer - and also a counsel of maybe 4 or 5 co-dictators of fencing who can review more rationally, the world of men and women fencing.

I still have strong feelings about male/female inter-collegiate competition, that is based soley on Weight/Height ratio, very much the way a wrestling team would put together their compeition.

Good luck everyone, and stay away from all that heat in Paris. I can't believe it what is this some kind of a joke??

[downunder]

Originally Posted by umbrella

, but to keep women out of stuff is just plain counterproductive, and smacks of old-timey - french style paternalism, that dates back to Napoleon and the days of slavery.

thats bull****.

If anything, the fencing world is drifitng more and more towards the womens events and towards equality. The FIE has never strove to keep women out of any events at all.

In fact it was the start of competitive womens sabre that created the olympic event problem. This is not to say the women should be disadvantaged by this, but until we are able to have 12 medals for the olympics, some of the sports need to be cut.