What is the point to weight and shim testing for epee? - Fencing.Net Discussion
topleft topright

Go Back   Fencing.Net Discussion > General Fencing > Armory - Q&A

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2005, 06:09 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
shlepzig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Princeton NJ
Posts: 286
shlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to all
What is the point to weight and shim testing for epee?

I have been pondering the epee tip problem for some time. All the pain and suffering we go through to keep our tips in trim.

Then I wondered:

Why do we have a weight test AND a shim test?

I don't see any situation where I can excert more than 750G of force (arguably this is what .75N or whatever) and not produce the necessary travel on the tip?

What is the purpose of both, if the spring is sufficiently strong to keep the tip from lighting when the weight test is performed what is the travel test protecting in the game (other than being the cause of way too many failed weapons tests and niggling with weapons before a tournament).

Plese don't flame me, I just want to be educated.

Shlep.
shlepzig is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
And now for this message...
Go Green members don't see these ads.


Old 10-14-2005, 07:00 PM   #2
Armorer
 
DHCJr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Long Beach, CA / Las Vegas
Posts: 3,514
DHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond reputeDHCJr has a reputation beyond repute
They don't want to turn it into Foil. They have been seriously trying to have travel for Foil also. In fact, it made it into the rules, but they didn't send out the specifications to the manufacturers. The travel was going to be 2mm.

Considering how little hitting with 750 grams is, any hit could rock the tip enough to set off the light, if there was no travel. Most hits are at least 3 times that much.
__________________
Donald Hollis Clinton, Jr.
DHCJr@juno.com

To Teach is to Learn (Japanese Proverb)

Knowing the rule book by heart means nothing, if you don't understand the rules.
DHCJr is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2005, 07:49 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
D+F+P=Hadouken!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,537
D+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond reputeD+F+P=Hadouken! has a reputation beyond repute
That explains why the really really good epeeists hit so light you dont notice.
__________________
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
D+F+P=Hadouken! is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2005, 06:33 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
shlepzig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Princeton NJ
Posts: 286
shlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to allshlepzig is a name known to all
Thanks

Thanks DHC,

That is starting to make sense. So the measurement is really making sure that the moves the distance from the top to the contact. The shim is really just the way to make sure that it travels from the end of travel to a distance after that travel, and it is measured as the total gap minus the shim.

The physical reason this is measured is to ensure that a non-trivial bump to the tip is required to set the tip off.

It seems to me that the debounce time is another way of measuring an aspect of triviality.

Shlep.
shlepzig is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2005, 12:47 AM   #5
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 10,151
KD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond reputeKD5MDK has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to KD5MDK
Except with a 40ms simul window, any meaningful debounce time will be a substantial fraction of that. Not sure if that would really impact the game, but it might.
KD5MDK is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fencing FAQ (part 1) Morgan Burke Rec Sport Fencing 2 02-21-2005 08:00 PM
Fencing FAQ (part 1) Morgan Burke Rec Sport Fencing 2 02-21-2005 08:00 PM
Fencing FAQ (part 2) Morgan Burke Rec Sport Fencing 0 02-21-2005 08:00 PM
Fencing FAQ (part 1) Morgan Burke Rec Sport Fencing 2 02-21-2005 08:00 PM
Fencing FAQ (part 2) Morgan Burke Rec Sport Fencing 0 02-21-2005 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:59 AM.


(c) 1995 - 2007 Fencing Net; Fencing.Net, fdn, Fencing101, Epee101, Foil101, Sabre101 are all trademarks of Fencing.Net, LLC.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. - Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5 -    Medieval Swords from the online Replica Sword Shop