Lackadaisical fencing = "collusion?"

[Sciurus Rex]

Ever see a fencer just sort of give up in a bout and stop fencing as well as he is able? It might be that he's tired, or that he's qualified as near the top as he needs, or that he's got something else on his mind ... or that he's simply a bad sport and would rather be watching TV. It's hard to tell what his motivation is; all that you know for *certain* is that he's normally got medium-high level ability, and now he's looking sloppy.

But do you give him a black card for it?

The rules for declaring a black card penalty specify "profiting from collusion, favoring an opponent." But let's clarify (or muddy) the generic situation posted here just a little bit more: We cannot be certain that Fencer-A is trying to benefit Fencer-B, nor that Fencer-B is aware of Fencer-A's intent.

An opponent is supposed to fence as well as he is able to fence -- to perform less than your ability is at least a moral offense, if not unsportsmanlike conduct. So the question comes down to this: How should a director treat a fencer who seems to be giving up sloppy touches?

[D'Artagnan1673]

I don't think you should. It is a matter of opinion whether or not someone is giving up touches because they don't care. You may be right, but there is always the chance that the fencer is tired due to illness or lack of endurance. I just think it would be too arbitrary to make decisions based on the criteria you provided

[damianip]

If the fencer has the bout in hand, why should he exert himself, especially if this bout is at the beginning of the tableau?

Maybe he's conserving energy, maybe he has a slight injury, maybe he's looking to the next bout against a tougher opponent. Maybe his opponent has beaten him before and he's worried or distraught.

If it's in a pool and they are on the same team or family, you may have an argument. It's unfair to punish the fencer unless his intent is clear.


Paolo

[Inquartata]

Not unless you are a mind-reader, and can prove it.

Losing is it's own punishment.

[135711]

i know what you were alluding to, however, i have never seen anyone delibertly take a dive in order to help another fencer, a fencer is allowed to withdraw from a bout if he or she wants to and i almost withdrew from one bout, but decided to go ahead, and give it a whirl, one point is really all i wanted, after that i knew the game was his, oh well, NEXT TIME!

and inquartardia: for people who are just starting their fencing 'careers' so to speak, losing bouts is something one has to get used to and adjust to and grow with, and futher if a person wishes to do better and better in the sport, they will have to fence many people and they will probably lose some.

There's an expression: Lose some, Win Some
Also: It's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. So while we may all hope to play to win, we still must lose once in a while, unless we are absolutely undefeatable like the legendary Aldo Nadi [who's name i cannot say, for i am not rated yet]

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