An intelligent discussion

[bmcfencer]

Originally Posted by Araznal

I was hoping for a vague academic answer, that's what Taussig is expecting of me, anyway. You should share your views.

Taussig is teaching at Columbia University. I'm a visiting student there until I go off to Brandeis. His class is so crazy, and he himself is quite a nut. He has this high pitched laugh that makes you automatically laugh with him. Afterwards, you feel so drained because the subject matter is incredibly vague, but powerful.

What I don't get is why everyone thinks that transgression is like taboo. Transgression is the act of breaking the taboo, of crossing the boundary.

Okay, okay, culture... hmmmm........ at the moment I'm viewing culture as something fluid and ever changing, both shaped by and shaping human life and acting as a lens on human experience. Referring to a group of people as having or being a "culture" is a way of setting a box around those people and often allows the interconnectedness of human society to be ignored or overlooked. "Culture" can apply to the dress, food, art, language, religious beliefs, gender roles, and so on of a particular set of people. It is learned but true enculturation only occurs when you have grown up in that culture (meaning a anthropologist can never truly belong to the "culture" they study) and it has no basis in physical human characteristics. Basically everything that marks us as human can be part of the definition of culture, though some animals are also said to have culture (chimpanzees and bonobos especially). Defining something as "cultural" is often an intensely political act, but if I went off on that I'd bore everyone to tears. So I'll stop.

Vague but powerful... mmmm... that sounds about what I'd expect. My favorite anthro prof is never clear about anything and I love that (except when I'm trying to write her papers). The ambiguities in the study of Anthropology fascinate me.

[Araznal]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

Your thread is insulting. You are implying that we aren't capable of intelligent discussion and you are showing us that we need you to lead the way...

...America has little or no heritage and she dilutes the heritage of others who come to America while promoting the dissasemblement of culture and heritage worldwide.

Your right RL, my initial tone was spiteful, and I'm sorry about that. Truthfully, though, I wanted to start my own intelligent conversation in the water cooler about something I could comment on. There are plenty of intelligent people in this forum, and I wanted their insights on this specific topic.

Hmm, your comments about America are very true, but maybe take that a bit further to say that America's 'culture' is the destruction of past culture. It also includes the search for wealth, fame, and commodity goods.

Once again, you're right, RL, I'm sorry to who ever felt offended in any way.

[bmcfencer]

But almost EVERY "culture" has meant the destruction of other "cultures" and the taking of bits and pieces and enmeshing them totally out of context in a new system of meaning. Every "culture" has a historical contest and heritage, and every history is a construction used to validate that "culture". Whoever lands on the...oh, giant rugby pile of events, has more power to shape that history, and governments, like our own, often legitimize their own telling of it (Really, look at the garbage they teach in public education's social studies classes, it's terrible). I don't applaude our society's materialism and triviality, but I don't think we're worse off than most of the people who've come before us or who live in other parts of the world. If you're talking about the processes of Americanization and democratization on the global field, I agree that it's disgusting, but I don't think it's single handedly destroying "cultures" the world over. Just because someone starts wearing a bugs bunny tee-shirt and no longer looks picturesque enough for a National Geographic photo doesn't mean they've lost their sense of identity or "culture".

Sorry for the rant.

[latenight]

Originally Posted by Epee_Pox

What do you mean, you don't believe in taboos? You don't believe they exist? How strange. I know very well they exist in almost all cultures.

Taboos in my own culture include such things as: don't eat humans, don't have sex with children, don't use the "n" word if you're white, don't kill except as a last resort of self-defense, etc.

It would have been more accurate to say I don't pay them any mind.....yes they exist as a societal crutch................

[Have At You]

Originally Posted by latenight

It would have been more accurate to say I don't pay them any mind.....yes they exist as a societal crutch................

So you think it's a crutch for society to disapprove of, say, raping black children while calling them offensive names, then killing them and eating their corpses?

Come on, some things just are not done.

[Mr Epee]

I think it's funny when stoners try to recreate the really intelligent conversations they had when they were high.

Bonus points if they start trying to discuss astrophysics.

[Fencergrl]

Hey man... let's spark another one... oh...turn on the lava lamp while you're up and I'll tell you how the Universe is really getting smaller and not expanding like a lot of scientists would like you to believe....

[keith]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

I think it's funny when stoners try to recreate the really intellegent conversations they had when they were high.

why would you waste a good high on intelligent discussion

[Araznal]

So, anyway, since the discussion has hit a quagmire, probably due to the very vague question, I'll keep the thread updated with my class. Today, Taussig went in depth about the properties of witchcraft and what makes it so prevalent as an explanation for terrible things. If anyone has experience with superstitiuos cultures that use witchcraft as an excuse, please share.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Araznal

So, anyway, since the discussion has hit a quagmire, probably due to the very vague question, I'll keep the thread updated with my class. Today, Taussig went in depth about the properties of witchcraft and what makes it so prevalent as an explanation for terrible things. If anyone has experience with superstitiuos cultures that use witchcraft as an excuse, please share.

Everyone knows the story of Abram. If you don't, then read Genesis chapters 12-22. God promised Abram his own country. The only problem was that Abram didn't have a son. He might not have cared about it much, but his wife, Sa'rai, knew that by God's law, her husband's earthly possessions would go to the head servant if there weren't no kids around. She got worried and forgot God's promise to her husband, and in a fit of desperation, she offered up her Egyptian servant, Hagar to, Abram. Hagar got jealous of Sa'rai after having sexual relations with Abram, as women are wont to do. Sa'rai saw this, and with Abram's blessing, she kicked the harlot out of the house. Turns out Hagar had a son. It is this son, and all of his descendants that are causing most of the problems in the world today. His name was Ishmael, and he was the first towel-head, or to use a politically correct term, A-rab. God told Hagar in Genesis 16:10-12, "And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him." Ishmael was to father powerful nations, but none of his descendants would be allowed to go to Heaven after they died. They were born bad.

The real treat came when Abram was 90-years old and he circumcised himself with a sharp stone. That made his penis pure enough to get through to Sa'rai and produce a real son named Isaac. God told him he was to cut at the penises of every descendant born through Sa'rai if he wanted his family to be blessed on Earth and go to Heaven after they died. It would still have been mandatory for all of us today to cut off our penises if Paul didn't come along and tell us it was just an option. I suggest you do so, if you haven't already. It adds a nice Old Testament touch, and your penis will look just like Jesus' penis.

Let's jump forward a few thousand years. The descendants of Ishmael are running around in the desert worshipping all kinds of gods. Satan saw that a large portion of them were worshipping the moon-god. Some were even worshipping the daughters of the moon-god, Al-lat, Al-uzza, and Manat. They were called "The Daughters of Allah." The moon-god was called "Allah." Old Lucifer got it into his big red head that he could unite all of these idol-worshipping towel-heads under Allah. He did this by appearing to a person that was already very upset that God wasn't going to let him go to heaven just because he was a descendent of Ishmael. That feller's name was Moohammad. Demons helped him write a book called, "the Ko-ran," which is basically an instruction manual on how to kill anyone who doesn't worship the moon. Now we have entire countries of God-hating moon-worshippers shooting everyone out of jealousy, just because God isn't going to let them go to Heaven. Why, it's even got so twisted up that nowadays, these Mooslims (moon worshippers) think that they are the ones going to Heaven and everyone else is going to Hell. It's a shame that none of them can read English. If they did, they could open up the Bible and find out that God had it out for them from day one. The only way for them to avoid Hell is to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. And it doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon, because the minute you start running your mouth about Jesus being the Son of God, they shoot you dead.

[Araznal]

By witchcraft, I am referring to the idea of human interference that leads to everything bad. This doesn't meant it's the only reason. For example, a boy falls and hurts himself, but he doesn't get better. He is provided with medicines and still, the boy doesn't get better. The final conclusion is that someone is a witch and is keeping the boy hurt.

Witchcraft is special because is has nothing to do with any sort of divine power, such as RL's description of the history of monotheism.

[ReverseLunge]

Stages of changing values as a culture declines

1. PROMOTE what is noble, healthy, wise, and furthers life; this is the will of the gods.
2. PREVENT what is ignoble, unhealthy, ignorant, and degenerate so that it does not cause harm.
3. DESTROY what is ignoble, unhealthy, ignorant, and degenerate if it appears despite preparations to prevent it or because of systemic cultural decline that allows it.
4. ISOLATE what is ignoble, unhealthy, ignorant, and degenerate so that it becomes the problem of the localized community that allowed it to come into existence, while taxing their resources.
5. TOLERATE what is ignoble, unhealthy, ignorant, and degenerate and decline thereby.