Kashmir Quake

[Army Fencer]

High time for a thread here.

I really hope that we are aggressive about getting aid there. This could go a long way toward helping prevent terrorism. I'll even go as far as saying that this needs more attention and money than the Katrina aid effort.

The current confirmed dead is over 20,000.

[Slim]

High time for a thread here.

I really hope that we are aggressive about getting aid there. This could go a long way toward helping prevent terrorism. I'll even go as far as saying that this needs more attention and money than the Katrina aid effort.

The current confirmed dead is over 20,000.

Its a terrible thing. I'm glad to see countries stepping up:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapc...ce/index.html/


Here's a questions though. Why is the US always the first to be slammed for not contributing enough, fast enough? Where are all the other Arab nations on this list? Why arent the oil-rich countries at the front of the list to help their Arab brothers and sisters?

EDIT: Here is the link:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle318644.ece

[Gav]

Pakistan isn't an arabian country - although it borders the Middle East. It's a muslim country and Kashmir is a disputed region between India and Pakistan.

[Gav]

Perhaps, in this instance, the US was slammed because it offered $100k - the same as the initial UK, and Indonesia offering despite [Indonesia being in the Tsunami region] being the richest country in the world?

Besides that article doesn't just slam the US it's quite critical of the UK as well as the EU (although indirectly in that case). The West, in general, has been quoted as being big on promises poor on delivery.

[Slim]

Pakistan isn't an arabian country - although it borders the Middle East. It's a muslim country and Kashmir is a disputed region between India and Pakistan.

Yes, I stand corrected. Let me rephrase:

Here's a questions though. Why is the US always the first to be slammed for not contributing enough, fast enough? Where are all the other Arab nations on this list (Kuwait is the only one listed)? Why arent the oil-rich countries at the front of the list to help their muslim brothers and sisters?

[Gav]

Re-reading that article, if you look at the bottom .. the Independent has the US listed as giving $50m plus black helicopters, that doesn't look so bad to me.

BTW; Malaysia is a muslim country as well and it's on the list. It's also an oil producer. Though it's not arabian either.

[Slim]

Perhaps, in this instance, the US was slammed because it offered $100k - the same as the initial UK, and Indonesia offering despite [Indonesia being in the Tsunami region] being the richest country in the world?

Besides that article doesn't just slam the US it's quite critical of the UK as well as the EU (although indirectly in that case). The West, in general, has been quoted as being big on promises poor on delivery.

Within a day the amount from the US was $50mil+ as an initial contribution. It takes a little time to evaluate the situation before throwing huge sums of money at the problem.

What I find curious though is the lack of immediate response, or in some cases lack of any response at all, from fellow muslim countries, some with virtually unlimited financial resources. Where is the outrage at countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia? How about at least some token contributions from Egypt, Syria, and Iran to name a few? I mean, Sri Lanka even stepped up.

[Gav]

And Sri Lanka is pretty poor. It's possibly given far more of its total income than all of the others so far - I haven't looked up the stats to be sure. That's impressive and humbling in my opinion.

[Slim]

Re-reading that article, if you look at the bottom .. the Independent has the US listed as giving $50m plus black helicopters, that doesn't look so bad to me.

BTW; Malaysia is a muslim country as well and it's on the list. It's also an oil producer. Though it's not arabian either.

So, are you saying that there has been enough contribution by the muslim nations?

[Gav]

Which ones?

There isn't enough data in either of your citations to allow me to say for sure. Neither article says anything about the 'other' muslim countries. There's no data for me to say whether 'they' are good or bad. The UAE and Yemenese are mentioned in the Independent; that is all.

There are plenty of countries not mentioned? Where are the Scandanavians. Where are the central Europeans? Why hasn't New Zealand made a pledge goddamnit?

See what I mean?

And in the spirit of Army Fencer's original statement:

(Sri Lanka, one of the most serious victim of the tsunami and still struggling to rebuild itself, has also pledged $100,000.)

Impressive.

"The initial announcement was a joke," said Rasul Bakhsh Rais, a Pakistani political analyst at the Lahore University of Management Sciences, pointing to the politically sensitive nature of the US/Pakistani relationship. It is very unusual for American aircraft to fly in Pakistan, and Islamabad, faced with vehement opposition to the US-led "war on terror" has forbidden American forces to operate on its soil. "Every move of the United States is judged here on political grounds. It was a rare opportunity for the United States to show that it's a true friend of Pakistan," said Mr Rais.

I think this is what Army Fencer is getting at. A real opportunity for the US to flex it's foreign policy and look good.

[ThatReallyHurt]

Allright - This is good, too..

I wonder if we're going to send the DART over...

[esskreemr]

Within a day the amount from the US was $50mil+ as an initial contribution. It takes a little time to evaluate the situation before throwing huge sums of money at the problem.

What I find curious though is the lack of immediate response, or in some cases lack of any response at all, from fellow muslim countries, some with virtually unlimited financial resources. Where is the outrage at countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia? How about at least some token contributions from Egypt, Syria, and Iran to name a few? I mean, Sri Lanka even stepped up.

Ugh... Some people don't even think twice about acts of humanity in times of need; they do it because it seems...well, human to them. You seem to think we need a friggin' medal or trophy for it. Tell you what, I'll print you a certificate up on my computer if it will make you feel better about yourself.

[ReverseLunge]

Now is the time to attack.

[Inquartata]

We are criticized for not adopting policies and taking actions which will ameliorate the things that the "world community" and especially the Muslim world dislikes about us. We are exhorted to do things which will improve our reputation in their eyes, and reduce the "recruiting opportunities" for terrorists. And when we do, we are accused of only doing for cynical geopolitical reasons.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Myself, I make no bones about it: this is an opportunity to brush up our image in a country where large portions of the population identify with Bin Laden and his ilk, and where pernicious madrases churn out future radicals to be aimed at us, supposedly BECAUSE of our present, purportedly tarnished, image. And I don't see why we can't recognize that IN ADDITION to our humanitarian concerns.

It doesn't have to be one or the other, heart OR head. It can be both.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

There are plenty of countries not mentioned? Where are the Scandanavians. Where are the central Europeans? Why hasn't New Zealand made a pledge

I think this is what Army Fencer is getting at. A real opportunity for the US to flex it's foreign policy and look good.

I don´t know about the other Scandinavians, but Sweden has (for starters) sent a plane with tents, blankets, and other supplies. It arrived yesterday, IIRC the newspaper report. Our foreign ministry is also preparing a bigger package, as of now the monetary extent is not decided. Official statement:
http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/5990/a/51327

Also, I have seen on the news that India, Pakistan´s archenemy, has sent help as a part of the two countries recent warming.

On the topic of how much aid should be donated in proportion to the economic size of the country: Sweden always sets aside 1% (or nearly so) of its BNP as foreign humanitarian aid. This is in line with a UN recommendation that Sweden has signed, and most members of congress feel legally bound by that.


Best of luck to those affected.

Peter Gustafsson

[Gav]

Peter,

I was making a point, not accusing the Scandanavians of anything.

[pigeonmeister]

Nice to see that Slim and Inq take the opportunity of commenting on 20,000 dead in a Muslim country to display more bitterness of the injustice of anti-Americanism.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Peter,

I was making a point, not accusing the Scandanavians of anything.

I did not take that way. Just wanted to fill in some relevant data.


Best of luck to those affected.

Peter Gustafsson

[Slim]

Nice to see that Slim and Inq take the opportunity of commenting on 20,000 dead in a Muslim country to display more bitterness of the injustice of anti-Americanism.

Actually, the main thrust of my question was why the muslim nations don't respond immediately to a situation effecting a huge number of fellow muslims and display to the world more self reliance. Why are they not leading the pack in response time and $$ ? I see the west as the only one critisized for "too little, too late". Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Qatar, Iran....where are they? Even with token contributions?

Since you appear to be such an expert in those parts of the world, perhaps you would care to comment?

I agree with Inq and Army Fencer that this is a good opportunity for the US to change perceptions.

[Slim]

Which ones?

There isn't enough data in either of your citations to allow me to say for sure. Neither article says anything about the 'other' muslim countries. There's no data for me to say whether 'they' are good or bad. The UAE and Yemenese are mentioned in the Independent; that is all.

There are plenty of countries not mentioned? Where are the Scandanavians. Where are the central Europeans? Why hasn't New Zealand made a pledge goddamnit?

See what I mean?

Nice detour around the question I posed. Re-read the question. I mentioned several specifically. It's the muslim nations I'm asking about. There is data...the fact that there has been no comment or pledge from many of these fellow muslim nations.