Need help with directing

[DBGlazer]

I just recently returned to fencing after a 14-year gap. I find directing to be kind of stressful: I don't want to make bad calls, but I don't want to seem uncertain of myself, either. (In our club, it's expected that the next person up has to direct the current bout.)

Does anyone have any helpful tips on making directing easier (like, "don't look at the machine")?

Thanks,

-- David

[oso97]

Well, first of all, the proper term used now is "refereeing." Directing went out about 10ish years ago.

A quick search of the forum threads will yield a number of good results on this very topic.

[RITFencing]

I've got a few. One is to stand back from the action; it will give you a better view of it. I've heard top referees recommend 10-20 feet. In the same vein, keep moving with the fencers; make sure you can always see what is going on. The box will let you know when you have to look over there.

Let's see... don't call halt too early. Generally, when one fencer does something besides set off a ligth that would cause a halt (turns the back, fleches past, goes off the side, etc) the other fencer is entitled to an immediate riposte. Not sure offhand which actions allow it; I would look it up.

Which leads me into another thing, make sure you know the rules! There are some quizzes on here that can help out, and I think the sample test for refs is online on usfencing.org.

In epee (I don't really know much specific stuff about the other two) everything that you need to watch out for, mainly floor touches and off hand parries happen at or below the fencers waists.

Finally, do you direct only in club or in competitions? When you're directing at your club/salle, feel free to accept input from the fencers, so long as it's constructive, even if they disagree with your interpretation. It will help you become a better director in the long run. Also, when dealing with new fencers in the club/salle, take the time to explain your call; they probably have a shaky grasp of RoW and the rules in general.

In competition, however, never EVER change a call once it has left your mouth. EVER. Even if you know you just made the worst call in history and everyone there is gaping at you. A referee's decision can only be challeneged if it does not agree with the rules, IE giving a yellow card for an unitentional corp-a-corps in epee. If you say it was attack parry riposte, it was attack parry riposte. If you allow the fencers to change your mind after the fact, you are really opening yourself and all the other directors at that comp up for a lot of aggrivation. Depending on the level of the comp, moderate how much you explain your calls. If it's a Y-10 event, feel free to give a small explanation if a fencer is confused. Reffing a NAC, keep it short and sweet with clear language and hand motions.

[SJCFU#2]

You might want to read through a current copy of the rules. There have been a few changes in the last fourteen years (such as the lights have changed sides).

[chiz]

David

Which weapon? First learn the rules for the weapon you fence and the weapons you referee. Go to the FOC website and download the current rules.

http://www.fencingofficials.org/

Watch other refs – see how they call the bouts – watch the good ones and ignore the bad ones, watch videos.

You will get better with practice. Don’t get stressed out, you can’t make the call if you do.

Chiz

[rcmatthews]

It's not like if you call it directing you will sound outdated or old fashioned. In my experience, the terms ref and direct are used almost interchangeably. Preside is also used, but much more infrequently.

[Inquartata]

Aplomb, and effort. Nothing will lose you control of a strip faster than appearing flustered, nervous, unsure or manipulable. At the same time I hate refs who seem so bored that they seem to be telling you that you are wasting their time. Use the hand signals; follow the action; be invested. Don't just flap one hand slightly to indicate to which side you are awarding the point and look at the other fencer as if to say "Isn't it obvious?"

That, and knowing the rules backward and forward.

[Go? Fencing?]

Look either at the fencer you're awarding the point to or the box, not the fencer who just got scored upon. Keep it professional.

[arkady_tsep]

I have found this to be a VERY useful guide to directing. Oh and on a side note. It might be the area I'm in, but of all the venues and the several clubs that I've visited, they've still called it directing.

http://www.fencingofficials.org/Info...rReferees.html

[mousers11]

For foil, watch the fencers & not the box, if in doubt call it together, if you dont know what happened neither will the fencers & at least if your wrong nobody loses a point. never argue with a fencer, call it as you see it.

[foilhag]

Originally Posted by mousers11

For foil, watch the fencers & not the box, if in doubt call it together, if you dont know what happened neither will the fencers & at least if your wrong nobody loses a point. never argue with a fencer, call it as you see it.

I disagree. I would much rather see a ref abstain from making a call, rather than saying an action was "together" when it wasn't. As a competitor, it gives me better information about what a ref can/can't see when they say they don't know, or they lost the action. That way if they really think do the action was simultaneous, I have a better idea of what they can see or what they're looking for.

I have often been at tournaments where some refs will call a lot of things "together" when clearly it wasn't. The fencers usually do know the difference. I respect the ref who is honest about what they see, and has the guts and confidence to say when they don't know.

[Li'l Bebe]

1.Try to take a referee course offered by your club or salle (if there is one). Boring, but informative, and really helps you understand and have confidence.
2.Don't be afraid to make a fencer upset by a call. Call what you see, nothing else.
3.Don't be afraid to say "I don't know." the fencers would rather you be honest, and throw out the action, then you half-making up a call and give it to their opponent. If the fencing is really above your level to referee, feel free to ask someone else to ref the bout.
4.Above all be consistent. There is significant room for interpretation in the rules, so stick to your interpretation. Example: If you consider forward movement without being parried an attack at the beginning of the bout, don't change a couple points later to only a perfect, text book attack, arm extended, to be an attack. Stick to your views. It's up to the fencer to adapt to your personal views, not vice-versa.
5.If fencers, coaches, or parents start to get upset at you, just say "on-guard." It closes all argument without question, and protects you from getting frazzled.

[RITFencing]

Oh, and this is kind of specific, but in foil, an attack is defined as:

A continuous forward motion that constantly threatens valid target.

I know that's really vague, and it's intended to be so. The arm doesn't have to be forward, they don't have to be in a lunge, and the point does not necessarily have to be facing that target.

Case in point: Felicia Zimmerman. (Or was it Iris?) One of her favorite things to do was to march down the strip, arm up, slowly extending forward. Since she could hit from a flick, it threatened valid target area, and since she kept moving forward, it was a continuous forward motion. Her weapon actually pointed BEHIND her head. Her distance and timing were so good that unless you were an international level fencer like her, she would either run you off the strip or she would nail you the second you stopped to try and draw her attack and do something with it. Very cool to watch, and something to keep in mind. Attacks are very amorphous in foil.

In sabre, however, an attack begins when the arm is extended and reaches what the rulebook says is a 135 degree angle with the floor. I got a chance to ask Bill Oliver about this, because it seems to prevent cuts to flank. He said that in actuality, it should be called as being 45 degrees with respect to a line extending from one's arm. Think about it like a cone extending from the hand. If the sabre blade coincides with the surface of that cone, and the arm is extended, it's an attack. Anything before that is prep.

Conversely, an attack in sabre is said to end when the front foot hits the ground. I don't know how often this is called with respect to advance lunges and ballestras. I think you would be safe calling the end of an attack when the front foot hits the ground on a lunge/flunge.

[chiz]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

Oh, and this is kind of specific, but in foil, an attack is defined as:

A continuous forward motion that constantly threatens valid target.

I know that's really vague, and it's intended to be so. The arm doesn't have to be forward, they don't have to be in a lunge, and the point does not necessarily have to be facing that target.

Rule t.56.(a).1. “The simple attack, direct or indirect (cf. t.8), is correctly executed when the extending of the arm, the point threatening the valid target, proceeds the initiation of the lunge or the fleche.” This has nothing to do with forward movement. Footwork is not a fencing action, it maybe preparation – it does not give ROW. With the tip of the weapon pointing somewhere other than valid target – ROW is not established.

Originally Posted by RITFencing

Case in point: Felicia Zimmerman. (Or was it Iris?) One of her favorite things to do was to march down the strip, arm up, slowly extending forward. Since she could hit from a flick, it threatened valid target area, and since she kept moving forward, it was a continuous forward motion. Her weapon actually pointed BEHIND her head. Her distance and timing were so good that unless you were an international level fencer like her, she would either run you off the strip or she would nail you the second you stopped to try and draw her attack and do something with it. Very cool to watch, and something to keep in mind. Attacks are very amorphous in foil.

Further, Rule t.56.(a). 4. “Actions, simple or compound, steps or feints which are executed with a bent arm, are not considered as attacks but as preparations, laying themselves open to the initiation of the offensive or defensive/offensive action of he opponent (cf. t.8).”

Be sure you learn the current rules and how they are interrupted. Part of that learning is watching how good referees make a call. If you can, go to competitions and watch highly ranked refs work. If comps are not available watch current videos which are current with the rule changes.

Point being, refereeing is fluid; the new crop of timing and rule changes make holes in a refs knowledge, keep current.

Chiz