USFA rule t.35 (Chapter 6)...uh-oh.

[Stryder]

Lots of US ref's are used internationally. That doesn't make them good. (Charlie is, by the way, a fine referee.) Derek is chosen because he is very good. He does interpret the rules the way the FIE does, as we all should.

Falling-
-Executing an action that you can't control without falling should not be allowed.
-Looking like an idiot in front of the few TV cameras that might point at fencers, should not be allowed.
-Any action that ends up with you on your can, cannot be good.

That said, the FIE does not card fencers for falling in the finals of World Champs, even if it effects the touch. Even if one fencer falls into another and causes them both to go down and get (or at least act) injured.[See 98WCh Golubitsky v. someone-I-can't-rememeber-starts-with-a-"K" So neither do I.

[edew]

Originally posted by Stryder:
<STRONG>Lots of US ref's are used internationally. That doesn't make them good. (Charlie is, by the way, a fine referee.) Derek is chosen because he is very good. He does interpret the rules the way the FIE does, as we all should.

Falling-
-Executing an action that you can't control without falling should not be allowed.
-Looking like an idiot in front of the few TV cameras that might point at fencers, should not be allowed.
-Any action that ends up with you on your can, cannot be good.

That said, the FIE does not card fencers for falling in the finals of World Champs, even if it effects the touch. Even if one fencer falls into another and causes them both to go down and get (or at least act) injured.[See 98WCh Golubitsky v. someone-I-can't-rememeber-starts-with-a-"K" So neither do I.</STRONG>

Semi-finals bout with Piotr Kieplekowski (obvious a spelling based on the sound...). Yeah, in that one, Golubitsky was completely on his back, lying down. No cards given.

[edew]

Originally posted by d8m:
<STRONG>EDEW,

Very true. Perhaps I should clairfy. I've not been expressing my thoughts clearly this week.

Derek is consistantly asked to ref at international tournaments. By the USFA, by the FIE.

Why, because he interprets and applies the rules as the FIE want refs to.
He doesn't card people for falling down. He doesn't card coaches for coaching.
Not at FIE tournaments, nor US ones.

In addition, when he pays attention, he has a very good eye for what happened on the strip.</STRONG>

Derek is very particular who he cards. I had him referee a bout once where the guy went through three BAD bodycords and possibly five BAD foils (we cross-checked the foils with my bodycord). Not a single card. Then, sometime during the bout, the guy ran into me and I tried to do a "charging foul" fall. He carded me for falling.

I don't think I've ever had a bout with Derek where he didn't card me at least once.

As for Derek going to international events, other referees are certainly capable of going as well. The question is whether they want to or not. Going to an international event takes time and money (it's not as though either the USFA or the host organizers will be forking over the bux). Referees are willing to go if they feel it will improve their stature among the FIE referees. Some won't bother because they earn plenty of money at home and would rather do that than spend a week in Talliin, Estonia.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by edew:
[QB]

Derek is very particular who he cards. I had him referee a bout once where the guy went through three BAD bodycords and possibly five BAD foils (we cross-checked the foils with my bodycord). Not a single card. Then, sometime during the bout, the guy ran into me and I tried to do a "charging foul" fall. He carded me for falling.

I don't think I've ever had a bout with Derek where he didn't card me at least once.
[QB]

Oh, good...I hope he's my director if I get you in Long Beach again!

Particular about who he cards? Hmmm...he was my pool director at my 1st NAC (Palm Springs, 1997, I think), and he yellowed me fr being late to the strip (even though I was standing right there and never heard him call names out). Maybe it was just because I hadn't seen him since the early '80s, I dunno. He hasn't carded me for anything since then.

I thought he was going to throw a card last week in club, though. He was giving someone a lesson (I think it was actually Felicia Zimmerman) and I was directing a couple of newbies...flailing away with foils like reeeeeeeaally bad sabre. I called one attack simul, and he yelled that it was an attack-counter attack. Obviously, his eyes are more experienced than mine!

[edew]

Yeah, he did that for me, too, in the Palm Springs NAC, maybe in 1997. I don't think I was fencing you, but it was in the DEs and the guy I was supposed to fence was sitting off to the side listening to the CD on head phones. Derek just calmly called, "Joe Schmoe, strip 26". Two minutes later, he called the name again, not loud, just conversation level (which means no one will hear it in that cavernous and loud hall). The guy got two read cards before he hooked up. Lucky he didn't get a black card.

He said later that in Europe, all fencers are ready and know exactly when they're up to fence. US fencers should be exactly like that, and not veg out listening to music. If you mind and body is not 100% concentrated on the game, don't bother to show up and get your lumps.

The guy was not so good a fencer, and I cleaned him up pretty quickly...fast enough so that Derek didn't have an opportunity to card me.

[Stryder]

Edew-

As I understand it, the first call is done over the loudspeakers when "all fencers please report to your strips" is bellowed.
The second call and third must be done in the same manner.
Also, in a pool bout you can give red cards until the bout is over at 5-0, but in a DE bout there is only one red card given for not being present at strip, then a black for the third call.