Republican NeoCon(victs) Indictments/Investigation

[esskreemr]

I felt that with all these indictments of Repubs surfacing, we should have a thread to keep track. So now we know that NeoCon actually stands for "New Convicts". This should get even more interesting as we see who rolls over on who.

So let's see:

Tom DeLay - (R-Texas, Senator, former Majority Leader)
2 indictments
1) Conspiracy
2) Money Laundering

Bill Frist - (R- Tennessee)
under Formal SEC investigations (gives investigators power to subpoena) for possible insider trading.


David H. Safavian - (R-former chief procurement official for White House under Bush Admin.)
Indicted under 5 felony counts

Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R- California)
Under Investigation for alleged financial favors for a defense contractor

Jack Abramoff (Repub, Lobbyist, heavy ties to DeLay)
five counts of wire fraud and one count of conspiracy

Rove et al. (Repub, Bush Admin)
Under Investigation for leaking classified information

[Inquartata]

Ah...so indictment=conviction in your world?

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Ah...so indictment=conviction in your world?

No, but I'm cautiously optimistic in these particular cases. Besides, the 'innocent until proven guilty' idea went out the window with the Patriot Act.

Perhaps we can place bets on who gets the most years and who gets off.

Hey! We should start a Fantasy Political Felons League. That would be fun. Put a limit of 2 years on it. See who can pick the Political (you can pick Dems too, of course), that racks up the most indictments or convictions. Good, clean fun for the whole family...

[Bayou Bum]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

Tom DeLay - (R-Texas, Senator, former Majority Leader)
Bill Frist - (R- Tennessee)
David H. Safavian - (R-former chief procurement official for White House under Bush Admin.)
Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R- California)
Jack Abramoff (Repub, Lobbyist, heavy ties to DeLay)
Rove et al. (Repub, Bush Admin)

Okay, you have stated the facts, but, which of these do YOU think are guilty? I would like your honest opinion whether they are really guilty of a crime and just the victim of a political witch hunt.

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Bayou Bum

Okay, you have stated the facts, but, which of these do YOU think are guilty? I would like your honest opinion whether they are really guilty of a crime and just the victim of a political witch hunt.

Unlike Bill Clinton.

[Philistine]

Also:

James Tobin, New England campaign chairman for Bush-Cheney '04, indicted for phone-jamming of democratic get-out-the-vote efforts. (2 others have already pled guilty).

Bob Taft (Ohio Governor)--pled guilty to accepting gifts.

Ernie Fletcher (Kentucky Governor)--issued pardons to his subordinates who were under an investigation which also implicated him.

Bob Ney (Ohio Congressman) may be tied into Abramoff case.

Not that Democrats are spotless--I think the spate of Republican indictments/investigation has more to do with who's in power (and thus more likely to be bribed, etc.) then it does with any intrinsic issues with either party.

--Philistine

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Bayou Bum

Okay, you have stated the facts, but, which of these do YOU think are guilty? I would like your honest opinion whether they are really guilty of a crime and just the victim of a political witch hunt.

Hmmm... that's a tough one. I would say DeLay is most likely guilty of something. Regardless of his moaning, he has skirted the line numerous times and has basically got slaps on the wrists for it. I have a suspicion that there are other charges that will surface.

In Rove's case, ultimately it's up to the CIA to determine the seriousness of the breech. I think the Republicans are going to be tasting their own tactics in this one. Look for perjury charges, obstruction of justice, etc.

Abramoff - bye bye, time to start looking for a comfortable an practical striped suit. Not to hold all Repubs responsible for the actions of a few, his ties to DeLay are thick and long and won't go unnoticed.

Frist - Highly suspicious. He's also already backtracked a number of times. First he didn't know he had stocks in the company his family founded, then he did know. He sold the stocks two weeks before an earnings report that caused the stock to plummet. In addition, he set up the not-so-blind trust to reduce the appearance of impropriety due to his influential position on committees that effect the Health Care industry.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

No, but I'm cautiously optimistic in these particular cases.

You know, I was initially more critical of Frist than Delay. His seemed to be a fairly straightforward case of insider trading. Now the SEC has obtained emails and phone records of Frist discussing sale of his shares way back in April, long before the earnings disappointment was recognized to be shaping up as it was.

Delay OTOH, well....

Besides, the 'innocent until proven guilty' idea went out the window with the Patriot Act.

It did? Pray, how?

Perhaps we can place bets on who gets the most years and who gets off.

I'm betting both Frist and Delay escape unscathed, at least legally. Politically, that's another story, as Gary Condit found out.

[esskreemr]

Oh, we need to add Scooter to the list now. 5 indictments.

I was going to include Tom Noe, but they just have him listed as a Repub donor...

However, John Colyandro a former assistant to Carl Rove has been indicted for money laundering, as well as 13 counts of unlawfully accepting corporate contributions.

Warren RoBold, a national GOP fundraiser who solicited money for TRMPAC from several of the indicted corporations, is facing nine third-degree felony charges of "making and accepting" prohibited corporate contribution.

And finally (for now): Jim Ellis aide to Tom DeLay, first-degree felony of money laundering.

Any keeping a running total? I'm losing count...

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Ah...so indictment=conviction in your world?

Oh please. We both know that he's innocent until pardoned. My guess is he plea bargins the counts down to 1 or 2 and then gets a full pardon by the Prez for his outstanding service to America. This would allow the Bush admin to avoid any uncomfortable questions about how the entire Nigerian Yellowcake incident was a sham used to justify the Iraqi war. Bush would take a little heat, but his numbers are so low right now, the only people approving of his job performance are the die-hards who would bind some way to excuse just about anything. After a few days of spinning, public's interest will be distracted by the announcement that Wal-mart has bought eBay and changed it's name to Wal-eWorld.

[Amadeus]

i think that rove is guilty, but i'd be very surprised if he actually gets convicted.

[achilleus]

A lot of the articles discussing the indictments in the CIA leak case talk about how Rove is still being invetigated, and how scooter is guilty of more but the prosecutor doesn't fell it can be proven in a court.

Of course, only the prosecutor knows which he feels (no crime, vs. something he can't prove in a court), but I think it's telling that they informed Rove ahead of time...

[esskreemr]

In yet another part of the continuing smear campaign by the liberal, commie, pinko, bleeding-heart, left, a former aid to Tom 'I've been indicted on 5 charges' DeLay has been indicted.

I would just like to say: Welcome to the Club, Mike, we're expecting many more members over the next few months. You don't get a t-shirt until after you have been convicted...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-charged_x.htm

Michael Scanlon, an ex-aide to former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, is headed for federal court Monday on a conspiracy count contained in a criminal information, which typically is a prelude to a guilty plea and full cooperation with government investigators.

Also Fitzgerald, has assured everyone that the investigation is not over. With Woodward's confession, some lofty heads may roll on this one.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

i think that rove is guilty, but i'd be very surprised if he actually gets convicted.

You mean, like most people in politics?

[Inquartata]

Positively slavering, aren't you? ( And they accuse conservatives of being bloodthirsty. )

BTW, the Woodward revelation only goes farther to show that Plame's cover was an open secret long before it became an of-the-pen secret. How you figure that helps your case against the Administration I cannot quite tell...I suppose it must involve some sort of abstruse logic available only to self-appointed liberal hatchet men...

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

In yet another part of the continuing smear campaign by the liberal, commie, pinko, bleeding-heart, left, a former aid to Tom 'I've been indicted on 5 charges' DeLay has been indicted.

I would just like to say: Welcome to the Club, Mike, we're expecting many more members over the next few months. You don't get a t-shirt until after you have been convicted...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-charged_x.htm


Also Fitzgerald, has assured everyone that the investigation is not over. With Woodward's confession, some lofty heads may roll on this one.

Well, that was an easy one. Scanlon pleaded guilty. He'll be rolling over on Abramoff.

Michael Scanlon, a former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay and a lawyer who worked with high-powered Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff, pleaded guilty to a federal conspiracy charge Monday.

[esskreemr]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Positively slavering, aren't you? ( And they accuse conservatives of being bloodthirsty. )

BTW, the Woodward revelation only goes farther to show that Plame's cover was an open secret long before it became an of-the-pen secret.

Hear that...

thump...thump...thump...thump...thump...thump...th ump...
That's the sound of the same ol' drum you've been beating...

Again, for the millionth time. Rush Limbaugh is not a credible witness for the defense. He is a known drug addict under investigation. In addition, he's an idiot.

Apparently noone prosecuting and/or investigating the case agrees with you. The only people who are advancing that weak argument are Right Media spindiots.

How you figure that helps your case against the Administration I cannot quite tell...I suppose it must involve some sort of abstruse logic available only to self-appointed liberal hatchet men...

As for Woodward, apparently he's indicating that the buck don't stop at Libby. Goes much higher up. Perhaps that's why noone has been charged with the actual crime, as STATED in the indictment. They are gathering more information to see how far the leak goes. If 'Scooter' was told by someone else with higher clearance, he may not be guilty of the treason of exposing a critical CIA field ops past covert status.

As for slavering, I'm REALLY hoping that this all falls in Cheney's lap. That man bugs me.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by esskreemr

Hear that...

thump...thump...thump...thump...thump...thump...th ump...
That's the sound of the same ol' drum you've been beating...

Yes. I give it an 8. It's got a good beat, and it's easy to dance to. ( A reference probably lost on 9 out of ten of fencing.net's posters. )

Again, for the millionth time. Rush Limbaugh is not a credible witness for the defense. He is a known drug addict under investigation. In addition, he's an idiot.

You have only Molly Ivin's word for that. Stop parroting left-wing nut jobs and learn to think for yourself.

Apparently noone prosecuting and/or investigating the case agrees with you.

And you know what they all think, because they call you to discuss it with you on a regular basis? Or is it because you heard Bill Moyers say so?

The only people who are advancing that weak argument are Right Media spindiots.

The only people who believe that are the left-wing shouters like Michael Moore. How sad that you have swallowed the Kool-Aid.

As for Woodward, apparently he's indicating that the buck don't stop at Libby. Goes much higher up.

Yes. But---that refutes the point that he's another person who knew about her identity BEFORE Wilson made himself persona non grata with the White House...how?

Perhaps that's why noone has been charged with the actual crime, as STATED in the indictment. They are gathering more information to see how far the leak goes.

Uh, I think if they wanted to do that, they'd charge some of the small fish and then plea bargain it down in return for their testimony against the bigger fish. As a prosecutor Fitzgerald certainly knows how that game works.

If 'Scooter' was told by someone else with higher clearance, he may not be guilty of the treason of exposing a critical CIA field ops past covert status.

In those circumstances, yes, he still would. It doesn't matter under the statute how one gets the information, only that one reveals it to an unauthorized interlocutor. Given that Libby had the right clearances, whoever told HIM might have been perfectly justified in doing so.

But again, Plame was not a "covert" agent under the statute in question, and the statute is not concerned with "treason". The treason statute is under Title 18 of the US Code, and states that

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war
against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and
comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason
and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five
years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and
shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

I think it would be very difficult to argue that the leak was meant to "levy war against the United States" or "adhere to its enemies". No one has even intimated that the intent was to give aid and confort to enemies of the nation. Which is perhaps why that statute hasn't even been mentioned.

Did you pick up the "treason" exaggeration from Al Franken or Cindy Sheehan?

Meanwhile, and more to my point that she was not a covert agent either formally or informally, earlier this year several major news organs filed legal briefs alleging exactly that---and claiming that Plame's identity and job were known to both Russian and Cuban intelligence already, and had been for some time. This, together with the reports that she was known in Washington social circles to work for the CIA ought at least to cast serious doubts on her status and thus on whether the law was violated. If one is not a True Believer from the left wing, that is....

Over to you, oh Howard Dean's sock puppet...

[esskreemr]

SAN DIEGO, California (AP) -- Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham pleaded guilty Monday to conspiracy and tax charges and tearfully resigned from office, admitting he took $2.4 million in bribes to steer defense contracts to conspirators.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by esskreemr

SAN DIEGO, California (AP) -- Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham pleaded guilty Monday to conspiracy and tax charges and tearfully resigned from office, admitting he took $2.4 million in bribes to steer defense contracts to conspirators.

He resigned from office and faces up to 10 years in prison, according to BBC web. While I think that he should be punished, he actually - according to BBC - admitted that he was in the moral wrong and did illegal things. Given that, I think that we should just let the punishment run its course, and not compound it by lambasting him further. If he would get more lambasting despite his admission of guilt and punishment - what lesson does that tell to other potential wrongdoers? It tells the lesson that one should never admit, one gets nothing whatsoever from it anyway. That is not a lesson I want taught.

Furthermore, I find the maximum punishment a bit harsh. Here in Sweden, aggravated rape tops out at 8 years, 10 years if exceedingly violent. Even if 2.4 million is a lot of money, I think that his actions are less bad than aggravated rape.

What happens to his seat in congress? Will there be a by-election, or what?

Can Cunningham spill some beans on the other GOP politicians currently in legal problems, and save his own skin?


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson