Underarm Protection

[epeemike81]

Originally posted by webmaster:
<STRONG>From the Fencing FAQ:
There is a risk of being injured by broken weapons. The shards of a snapped blade can be very sharp and cause serious injury, especially if the fencer doesn't immediately realize his blade is broken, and continues fencing. Always wear proper protective gear to reduce this risk. FIE homologated jackets, britches, and masks are ideal, as they are made with puncture-resistant fabrics such as kevlar. If you cannot afford such extravagances, use a plastron</STRONG>

Craig, as my previous post shows, one should ALWAYS wear a plastron, even if using FIE homologated jackets. seams can still tear.

-m

[Craig]

Agreed - I need to take a good look through the FAQ and edit it. That will be changed to state 'Always wear a plastron' - Should be second nature to any fencer, just like any other safety equipment.

Cheers,
Craig

[Catlady]

Hi,
while it's not the primary purpose, it will cut down a little on bruises. Just to reassure you, the equipment is quite sturdy and with the number of layers you wear it's unlikely you'll get anything worse than a bad bruise, or the ocasional "road rash" type thing if the tip slides a little. Blades do break, and they look quite sharp--I haven't had the,uh. . . er..intestinal fortitude to do extensive research--and the break at least on the cheapo France Lames blades I use usually isn't even, but the hard and fast universal rule that any fencer will tell you, right up there with never point your weapon at an unmasked person, is stop fencing the second the blade breaks. Having seen other people break blades while fencing and having broken one myself--don't ask me about the time it broke under my foot while I was straightening it--, you usually will see it break, in addition with electric scoring, when the blade breaks it usually takes the wire with it and this will make the off-target light go off, which will alert you even if you didn't see--although since you're slightly off balance by definition at the beginning of a fleche, especially a hard one, you may not be able to stop the forward momentum immediately when you see a blade break in this situation.I would attempt to move my blade away from my opponent in this situation, but having never been in the situation I don't know if it would work. Still accidents happen, and it's possible that a blade with the right force and speed could go through your clothing and into you. The less protection you have on the more likely. Puncture wounds in general are a bad thing, but there are quite a few major blood vessels, not to mention your heart, --usually a little left of the sternum, but not too far left-- and lungs in the area that make the chest an especially bad area to have one. In addition that area is generally considered the prime target area.

On the subject of bruises, what's really wonderful is when you have a really great, fierce night of fencing a few days before a doctor's appointment. This is especially true if you are female and wind up with large bruises on either your breasts or inner thighs. Then you wind up explaining that there really isn't anyone beating on you, or actually there is, but you want them to, really. My old doctor knew I was fencer, I warned him on my first appointment after I started fencing before I even got undressed, but he's retired so now I'll have to start over with his replacement. The funny story about that first visit however was that the worst bruise I had was not from fencing but from an inept phlebotomist (blood drawing tech). Then of course have you ever tried explaining to your non-fencing friends that yes you got those bruises while fencing, but really they were fun bruises and they should try fencing too.

[Peach]

Speaking of odd blade breaks, last night a clubmate's weapon broke while he was saluting. It just went.

As for the bruises, I still remember my gynecologist's expression. "I have to ask. Who gave these to you?" she said gently.

"Well, this one was a 15-year-old boy, and this one was a woman in her 50s, and I think this one was, hmm, I don't remember," and then I couldn't keep a straight face and explained that I was a fencer.

I always wear a plastron even though I'm a sabre fencer, but I hate it, and most of the point thrusts that have hurt me have gone directly to my throat.

--Delia

[sabreur]

Even with an underarm protector, there is some reason to question the degree of protection provided by any fencing kit, including the 800N FIE bulletproof uniforms. A guy at my club--epee fencer--had a broken blade go through his uniform, through his underarm protector (half-sleeve), and through his upper arm. He said that there wasn't even a moment of resistance, the blade just went right through.... He was wearing all 800N stuff too, which is mandatory here.

Regards, MR

[Event Horizon]

Yes, accidents can occur..even with the appropriate protective equipment. As far as I know, Fencing accidents are very rare--in the realm of blades impaling the opponent through his/her gear.

If the Fencer is using enough force to go through someone's jacket and plastron then maybe that Fencer is using way too much force. A person doesn't have to be that agressive to score a touch.

[damianip]

Originally posted by sabreur:
<STRONG>Even with an underarm protector, there is some reason to question the degree of protection provided by any fencing kit, including the 800N FIE bulletproof uniforms. A guy at my club--epee fencer--had a broken blade go through his uniform, through his underarm protector (half-sleeve), and through his upper arm. He said that there wasn't even a moment of resistance, the blade just went right through.... He was wearing all 800N stuff too, which is mandatory here.

Regards, MR</STRONG>

Ah, yes, but was the blade FIE? That makes a difference too. Plus, épée is definitely the worst case scenario. Not only should your kit be FIE, but it should be in good shape besides.

Even if it is, you're right, you're still only reducing the probability of injury.

Paolo

[Shadow Fencer]

To me, an underarm protector is like using a seatbelt in a car.... I'm so use to it that if I don't have it buckled, I don't turn the ignition on! The one and only time I ever forgot to pack a plastron in my fencing bag for practice, I felt practically naked since I didn't have one to wear, even though my jacket is made of heavy duty cotton !!

In other words, I was so use to wearing a plastron that it felt very odd not to have one on!

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Shadow Fencer ]

[sabreur]

Originally posted by damianip:
<STRONG>

Ah, yes, but was the blade FIE? That makes a difference too. Plus, épée is definitely the worst case scenario. Not only should your kit be FIE, but it should be in good shape besides.


Even if it is, you're right, you're still only reducing the probability of injury.


Paolo</STRONG>

Paolo,

You don't fence over here with anything other than FIE blades. And Michael keeps his stuff in good order--he finished fourth in the European Veteran Championships (40-50 age group) a couple of months ago.

I believe the blade broke right behind the tip, so even with a maraging blade, which breaks flat, you're talking about a very small area with a lot of force focused on it.

Epee is the worst case, although I'm waiting, somewhat uncomfortably, for the first case of someone taking one of the S2000 sabre blades. Sabres have a smaller cross section than an epee, and most sabre blades are not maraging steel. And I think a lot more sabre point attacks are directly to the body--I certainly don't intentionally attack the arm with the point.

Kind of scary actually.

Regards, MR

[big poppa]

I used to be stupid and not wear a plastron( didn't use condoms then either) One accident changed my mind on both. I like the cotton vest, it covers both sides, back and most of one's chest.On broken blades, in 88 I broke a blade in an attack.After the blade broke , I took the remaining part and continued the attack. I didn't think I just wanted the touch. all of this happened in less than 5 seconds . Accidents do happen; ALWAYS WEAR A PLASTRON.

[edew]

Originally posted by sabreur:

Epee is the worst case, although I'm waiting, somewhat uncomfortably, for the first case of someone taking one of the S2000 sabre blades. Sabres have a smaller cross section than an epee, and most sabre blades are not maraging steel. And I think a lot more sabre point attacks are directly to the body--I certainly don't intentionally attack the arm with the point.

Kind of scary actually.

Regards, MR

Actually, you have less to worry about the S200X sabre blades. They all seem to last about two weeks and break at the hilt/tang. Kinda hard to pierce someone's torso with the sabre guard, especially when the blade breaks when you make the parry.

[oiuyt]

Eric- not just a BIT of exageration there?

2 nights ago I broke my first 2000 blade after a full year of fencing with it. That brings my total number of broken sabre blades to 2, each after almost exactly a year of fencing with that blade.

One somewhat amusing anecdote, while I was shopping for my 2000 blades originally, I was at a vendor table and he was talking to a prospective buyer. When the buyer asked about the costs and differences between a couple of the new blades the vendor pointed out that blade A was a little cheaper than B, but that you REALLY needed to make sure that your parries were made correctly. Make the parry with the cutting edge and everything's good, make it with the flat and you would snap the blade off a good portion of the time. Not terribly surprisingly the buyer went with spending $4 extra and blade B.

Depends a LOT on WHICH S200x blades you use and your individual technique.

-B

[Inquartata]

Yeah, I have not broken a substantially greater number of 2000 blades than of the old variety, either. And the ones I have broken were all from catching an attacking opponent on a point-in-line; the new blades just don't hold up to serious bending as well as their predecessors...

[edew]

One night at Stanfoo, we had four S2000's break. One by the coach, two of one fencer's, one of another (the other broke his first, used the first fencer's sabre, broke that, and the first fencer also broke his own).

All were broken at the tang. Coincidence? Conspiracy? Make your call!

[oiuyt]

mmmm, I forgot to mention that the s2000 I broke broke about a third of the way from the tip (on a point attack). The non-s2000 blade I broke last year I broke hitting my opponent's parry and it DID break off at the tang (I was left with just a grip, my opponent wondered why the director wasn't allowing his touch.... )

-B

[Peach]

I buy cheap light ones from BG and replace them as needed; they frequently break but no more often than my old ones used to. Mostly they break (or bend, then break) near the tang. It's my impression this most often happens when I'm attacking and my opponent makes a late, overly-forceful malparry, which puts too much stress on the blade on the wrong axis. When I break it near the tip, it's usually a head or cheek cut.