A better epee tip screw ?

[Artisan]

I have designed a better epee tip screw, and am looking into getting it manufactured. Please help me out with this poll, so I can see if it will be economically feasible. It will have the following features:

- stainless steel
- Allen key head (inside hex)
- Special end to help it stay in better.

My goal is to have an easy to use screw that will stay put on the end of an Allen key, tightens well, and is easily installed. I'm expecting it to stay in at least 50% -75% percent better or more on average if the tip threads are in good condition.

The hex key will allow you to put a tip screw in more easily, with less chance of cross-threading, and allow you to tighten it with more torque. They will be more costly, but this should be offset by being much more reliable and easier to use - especially for those who normally need to put on glasses to even see a tip screw.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Welcome back dude.

I'd pay a ton for tip screws that never fell out. It would be nice if they were like, brightly colored, so then if you lose them while putting in a tip, you can find them easily. Even better if they have a built in GPS tracking
system.

[Allen Evans]

Is a hex key going to work on a fastener that small?

[keith]

you can get some tiny hex keys - but these can also become a problem since they bend/wear badly (in some cases), not to mention some of the small sizes run more expensive than a screwdriver and are harder to find.

[KD5MDK]

I fear the new Zip Fencing screwless tips may prove strong competition in the "I hate traditional tip screws" department.

[achilleus]

I think a lot of guys, and gals would pay more for an improved screw.

Am I one of the few that just doesn't seem to have that much of a problem? I magnetize my screwdriver, and I use german points that I check. Is it really that difficult?

[keith]

Originally Posted by achilleus

I think a lot of guys, and gals would pay more for an improved screw.

Am I one of the few that just doesn't seem to have that much of a problem? I magnetize my screwdriver, and I use german points that I check. Is it really that difficult?

Hush. Let them discover for themselves the joys of fitting a sub .5mm hex into a epee tip screw.

[Mr Epee]

It really isn't that difficult.

I appreciate innovation as much as anyone, but I would not purchase this product.

That said, not all tip screws are equal, and tips are disposable.

I do like my screws tight though.
It just seems to make things go quicker.

If your screw seems loose, find out if it can tighten up a little.
If it won't tighten... move on to the next one, and throw the old one away.
I know this seems harsh, but you do not need the extra baggage.
Trust me. It's fine.

[DHCJr]

This has been done before and I personally liked the ones I saw. I asked them to send me some, but they never did. One thing I do like is you will be able to tighten better, IF you buy a better grade. My preferred screwdriver for tips is made by Wiha of Germany (Black hande, Red top). They also make jewellers allen wrenches that do not warp. I have one for the screw that I saw and it worked great.

One thing of note, why do Armorers hate with a passion screwdriver pommels? Because you can't get the torque. If you get them, put me down for some.

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Welcome back dude.

I'd pay a ton for tip screws that never fell out. It would be nice if they were like, brightly colored, so then if you lose them while putting in a tip, you can find them easily. Even better if they have a built in GPS tracking
system.

I think a GPS system to find a dropped screw is overkill. A simple flashing strobe light will do.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

we need sirens too.

[chiz]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

.... One thing I do like is you will be able to tighten better, IF you buy a better grade. My preferred screwdriver for tips is made by Wiha of Germany (Black hande, Red top). They also make jewellers allen wrenches that do not warp. I have one for the screw that I saw and it worked great.

One thing of note, why do Armorers hate with a passion screwdriver pommels? Because you can't get the torque. If you get them, put me down for some.

Didn't someone say something about a long leaver to move something large? More torque = stripped screws/broken shoulders? No? How about instead of flat bottom machine screws - lock thread set screws?

How do you get a screw out when the shoulder is broken?

Chiz

[shlepzig]

Can we just make a pin the goes all the way through the tip and locks into place?

Lets just put and end to screws.

ADDED FOR CLARITY
The pin would pass through the tip where the screws currently fix into the tip. Some sort of torsion in the placement of the pin would fix it into place where it would have to be deliberately forced out.


Shlep.
hates the nasty screwses.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by chiz

Didn't someone say something about a long leaver to move something large? More torque = stripped screws/broken shoulders? No? How about instead of flat bottom machine screws - lock thread set screws?

How do you get a screw out when the shoulder is broken?

Chiz

Maybe I said it wrong. You could put the same torque on a screwdriver pommel, but you would have one problem, a broken pommel. What I should have said is you can put more torque on a allen wrench pommel/screw without damaging the pommel/screw.

Here is the reasons. First you are using more sides, 5 versus 2. You are putting presure on a solid piece, rather than 2 seperate pieces. Even made with the same soft metal, Uhlmann is noted for, a hex screw should last longer and they are used where a strong connection is needed. On one of my soldering guns to hold in the tip, it has hex screws.

[KD5MDK]

Er, a pin would fix the tip in place and cause it to fail the weight test?

[DHCJr]

No, what I think they are talking about is a linch pin. A hole would be drilled through the tip and the pin pushed through the hole. It would look and act just like the screws used now in that the pin would go up and down the groove in the barrel. I believe they were talking about Epee as that is where mose screws are lost.

[shlepzig]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

No, what I think they are talking about is a linch pin. A hole would be drilled through the tip and the pin pushed through the hole. It would look and act just like the screws used now in that the pin would go up and down the groove in the barrel. I believe they were talking about Epee as that is where mose screws are lost.

I added information in my previous post for clarity. But Donald beat me to it.

The only niggle in the design would be a simple way to fix the pin in place so it wouldn't be knocked loose from vigorous beats and blade actions.

At first blush I would design the pin to be of a shallow V shape and drill the hole from both sides at a slight angle (matching the incidence of the V). The pin would push in and flex until it reached the V. Then it would snap in place and depending on the material properties from there should withstand most attempts to dislodge it until it was deliberately pressed out. It seems about as simple as can be. Maybe even cheaper than screws and threading.

A tight press fit like a bicycle chain link would work as well. You would need something like a chain breaker to push the pin out. They are pretty effective, and quick.

Shlep.

[Jvanhousen]

A roll pin might work. It's basically a spring steel tube w/ a slot running down it. When pressed into the proper sized hole, it's compressed and the tension keeps it in place. You'd probably need some sort of basic fixture to guide the pin during insertion and removal.

[Artisan]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

Is a hex key going to work on a fastener that small?

Yes they are commercially available and work well on similarly sized screws, what we have to test is how well these work the way we will manufacture them.

[shlepzig]

Originally Posted by Jvanhousen

A roll pin might work. It's basically a spring steel tube w/ a slot running down it. When pressed into the proper sized hole, it's compressed and the tension keeps it in place. You'd probably need some sort of basic fixture to guide the pin during insertion and removal.

That's a great idea. I looked around but couldn't fine a roll pin in the 1mm range. Smallest I could find was about .046in. If I could find any the right size I would drill out a tip to test it out.

Shlep