Do you do ceding and intercepting parries?

[angrylemur]

I don't see these much any more. Does anybody do these often?

I like doing four with an intercepting seven, as well as a ceding parry seven from holding the blade in four.

<small>[ 07-29-2002, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: angrylemur ]</small>

[veeco]

I use a ceding prime when I get caught in my four (I'm a lefty). This sort of parry I use most of the time to pull myself out of touch, I have not really been successful at touching after one.

It's more a last chance before being hit kinda thing for me...

[D'Artagnan1673]

I've read about ceding parrys in Roger Crosneir's Fencing with the Epee.

I'll read up on those some more. I think that at one point I actually tried one with a fair amount of success against a blade taker.

[Pommel]

I found a ceding prime against an opponents bind in six to be very effective, but also very difficult to time properly. A risky move, but from time to time it can used to devestating effect, much like anything involving prime.

[swordsen]

Yes indeed I do. At least the ceedign parries. I find them to be very useful when fencing people who like to take the blade.

[angrylemur]

I just read my first post.

I meant a ceding seven out of a pris de fer in six. Or maybe it's eight. I hate lowlines. lol

[veeco]

In a righty-righty or lefty-lefty situation I am not sure you can do a ceding parry seven from four easily... However you can do an intercepting parry (is it the same as a binding, except on the defence?) from four to eight.

As far as ceding from a prise de fer in 6 into a seven I don't see that too often. Most often I see a ceding in prime, as it was pointed above.

But if my understanding is correct, that's a totally different style of game: in the ceding case, you are actually using the momentum from the opponent's action to your advantage whereas in the intercepting (binding?) case you are taking a brute-force approach and assuming that you can handle your opponnent's blade using sheer power of your muscles against his.

<small>[ 07-29-2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: veeco ]</small>

[D'Artagnan1673]

its been a while since I've read about ceding parrys, and I've never been actually shown one. Would someone be kind enough to refresh my memory of what a ceding parry is?

[angrylemur]

I can't give you the exact definition of a ceding parry, but I can describe it to you.

Lets say I am holding your blade in six. I know you are going to break the engagement and try to hit me in four. As you break the engagement, I make a "ceding" parry 7(or is it 8, stupid lowlines) essentially carrying your blade SMOOTHLY (this is the key in making ceding parries work, IMO) in the same direction you wanted it to be carried in, except the line is now closed.

An intercepting parry goes like this: You make a feint, I start parry four (for example, there are different types) you start a disengagement. About midway through your disengagement, I catch you in octave (or is it 7? lol). I guess it could be considered "brute force" but if you catch it on the right part of the blade it can be rather smooth.

Both of these are excellent ways to confuse the heck out of an opponent.

[veeco]

I thought that a ceding parry was when let's say you have my blade in six, I let you carry on your attack in 6, but as you apply pressure to my blade I don't try and resist and carry your blade (using your own force) in another line.

Maybe that's what you were describing.

As for intercepting parries I'm not sure. That's the first time I have heard the English term. I'll try and look those up into my books tonight.

[D'Artagnan1673]

Thanks Vecco, I was thinking the very same thing but was not sure enough to speak up. I did the ceding parry in epee and I was so shocked at doing it correctly that I nearly missed.

Angrylemur's idea sounds like I'd rather try it in foil rather than in epee. I try not to get into the habit of exposing my hand too much in epee. You can get away with it now and again in special situations, but you don't want to do it all the time.

[angrylemur]

The replies in this topic would point to my understanding of a ceding parry being wrong. I'll double check that and get back to you.

[haggis]

My understanding of a ceding parry is a defence against an attack or riposte where the attacking action has control of the defenders blade and the defender makes a parry without blade contact being broken. For example, attacker collests blade in 6 opposition, defender parries 1. No loss of blade contact. Or attacker gathers blade in 8 attacks with opposition to high line, defender parries 4. Again no loss of blade contact. Or attacker engages blade in 4 and attacks to low line (8) with opposition (flaconnade), defender parries 2. Yet again, no loss of blade contact.

Probably most common in epee because there are more actions where the fencer is trying to hit in opposition to ensure they can't be hit at the same time.

As for intercepting parries, again just my understanding, is a parry that is made when the opponent's blade is en route to somwhere else. For example, attacker in 6 disengages to attack in 4, defender parries 8 or 2 to catch the attacker's blade in low line when making transition from 6 to 4. Or attacker makes feint in 4 then disengages to low line (8), defender parries 7 or 1, again intercepting attacker's blade before it reaches the intended line of attack.

I could be wrong but I've no doubt I'll be told if that's the case.

[Jean del Epee]

Oh, yeah. Opponent takes in 8 opposition, and cede into a tight, inside 4, twisting at the waist, elbow inside, keeping point on target. In epee, it's a great move, but takes a lot of practice and confidence to execute otherwise you'll just get hit. I find fencers with super fast pres-de-fer cannot be easily handled with ceding parries; best to control attacks with distance. But most fencers who do take with binds and opposition can be counter-attacked with a ceding parry. Like others said, seems most prevelant in epee, then foil. Not sure about saber.