Re: [CFML] Announcement: Classical Fencing Tournament

[flanconade@aol.com]

In einer eMail vom 9/26/2005 9:19:09 PM W. Europe Daylight Time schreibt
ewmyers@yahoo.com:

All bouts will be fenced standard, with a director and four side judges.



This raises a question always lurking: What does "standard" mean? Over here
we gave a lot of thought to rules and use Walter Green's concordance of
pre-1930 ones. I have received word of occasional last-minute rule changes and
so on, artifacts of a lack of standards. Maybe the one innovation--if that's
what it is--is that we have adopted a much shorter strip, 6.3 meters or 20
feet. We did so because of earlier precedents (although strips even longer than
the 40-foot Olympic standard were used back when) and because we actually
monitored and measured free bouting without a formal piste in place. Obviously
we were starting from premises based on long-established concepts of
distance in the engagement. But another, convergent, item on the agenda was
safety: we wanted to prevent rushing assaults and compel focus on technique. The
result, though I wouldn't call it "scientific" because of acknowledged biases,
was that the distance people more or less or "clustered" around fell into
that 20-foot range. We also decided--this was based on my experience of US
classical tournament officiating, which seemed, frankly, as susceptible to
distortion as that in sport competition and suffered from a dearth of experienced
judges to support directing--to require fencers to give an account of how
they achieved (and received) a touch. In an era when male sport fencers are
wearing plastic chest protectors to make the new foil tips slide off without
registering, we figured Lady Honor needs as much help as she can get.
This--rational accounting--was first incorporated in the curriculum for learning
purposes but seemed applicable otherwise.

Bill Leckie
Klassisches Fechten Soest
_flanconade@aol.com_ (mailto:flanconade@aol.com)
_soestfechten@aol.com_ (mailto:soestfechten@aol.com)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[J. T. Farmer]

flanconade@aol.com wrote:

>judges to support directing--to require fencers to give an account of how
>they achieved (and received) a touch. In an era when male sport fencers are
>wearing plastic chest protectors to make the new foil tips slide off without
>registering, we figured Lady Honor needs as much help as she can get.
>

As an aside, this brings a question that has been lurking in my mind since
one of my new students asked about amour.

Is there any historical precedent for the wearing of hardened plates
similar to
contemporary sport fencing protectors?

Also, many male sport fencers aren't wearing the protectors to allow the
tip to slide off (which really only works if the protectors is worn outside
of the jacket), but rather to stop bruising and potential sternum fractures.

As an sport fencing instructor, I tell my beginning students during the
first
equipment & safety lecture, "A nipple shot hurts, man or woman" and
"sternum fractures can happen with any of the weapons, even under the
best conditions." (Yes, I recommend men and women wear the protectors.)

John
Novice coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club (http://www.orfencer.org)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
John T. Farmer Owner & CTO GoldSword Systems
jfarmer@goldsword.com 865-691-6498 Knoxville TN
Consulting, Design, & Development of Networks & Software



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[Linda Wyatt]

> As an sport fencing instructor, I tell my beginning students during the
> first equipment & safety lecture, "A nipple shot hurts, man or woman" and
> "sternum fractures can happen with any of the weapons, even under the
> best conditions." (Yes, I recommend men and women wear the protectors.)

Sternum fractures?!?

How hard are your students hitting each other?

I suppose it's remotely possible, "even under the best conditions," but the
thought had never occurred to me and has not been mentioned by my Fencing
Master in my presence or to my knowledge.

A nipple shot is mildly... stimulating... but I wouldn't worry about it
enough to wear extra protection. Of course, what I'm already wearing is a
fairly protective quilted jacket, not one of those commercially available
jackets with one or two layers of fabric and no padding.


If your students are hitting each other hard enough for sternum fractures
to be a real concern, something is wrong, in my humble opinion. Even
bruises should be relatively rare.

I personally detest those hard plastic chest protectors and won't wear one.
They DO make the point slide or bounce off, even under a jacket. Quite
simply, the point does not behave as it would without the hard plastic, and
I dislike that. I've made my own protector that is softer, and therefore
does not cause the bouncing off or change in point behavior. It's probably
not "legal" for USFA events, but that is not a concern for me.


Linda




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[William Black]

>
> >judges to support directing--to require fencers to give an account of
how
> >they achieved (and received) a touch. In an era when male sport fencers
are
> >wearing plastic chest protectors to make the new foil tips slide off
without
> >registering, we figured Lady Honor needs as much help as she can get.
> >
>
> As an aside, this brings a question that has been lurking in my mind since
> one of my new students asked about amour.
>
> Is there any historical precedent for the wearing of hardened plates
> similar to
> contemporary sport fencing protectors?

A garment called a 'brigandine' was a leather jacket with metal plates sewn
into it, often faced with velvet, it was an expensive item and superior to
the mail armour usually used at the time.

--

..William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.



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[MJ Dougherty]

----- Original Message -----
From: J. T. Farmer <jfarmer@goldsword.com>
To: <classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:04 PM
Subject: Chest protectors [Was: Re: [CFML] Announcement: Classical
FencingTournament]

I'm not sure about sliding off, but having a hard surface under your jacket
can (I'm told) make some short-duration flicks fail to register since they
bounce off before triggering the box. Hit time is longer on a squashier
surface, so they register more often.





> flanconade@aol.com wrote:
>
> >judges to support directing--to require fencers to give an account of
how
> >they achieved (and received) a touch. In an era when male sport fencers
are
> >wearing plastic chest protectors to make the new foil tips slide off
without
> >registering, we figured Lady Honor needs as much help as she can get.
> >
>
> As an aside, this brings a question that has been lurking in my mind since
> one of my new students asked about amour.
>
> Is there any historical precedent for the wearing of hardened plates
> similar to
> contemporary sport fencing protectors?
>
> Also, many male sport fencers aren't wearing the protectors to allow the
> tip to slide off (which really only works if the protectors is worn
outside
> of the jacket), but rather to stop bruising and potential sternum
fractures.
>
> As an sport fencing instructor, I tell my beginning students during the
> first
> equipment & safety lecture, "A nipple shot hurts, man or woman" and
> "sternum fractures can happen with any of the weapons, even under the
> best conditions." (Yes, I recommend men and women wear the protectors.)
>
> John
> Novice coach, Oak Ridge Fencers Club (http://www.orfencer.org)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> John T. Farmer Owner & CTO GoldSword Systems
> jfarmer@goldsword.com 865-691-6498 Knoxville TN
> Consulting, Design, & Development of Networks & Software
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The CFML is sponsored in part by Purpleheart Armoury, now carrying rapier
blunts and leather gorgets. http://www.woodenswords.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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----------------------------------------------------------------------

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