Should the US have Universal Healthcare

[jessicasimpson]

Should the United States have Universal HealthCare like every other industrialized country in the world, or should we continue with our "Free Market" system? Does anyone in this forum not have health insurance?

[latenight]

Should the United States have Universal HealthCare like every other industrialized country in the world, or should we continue with our "Free Market" system? Does anyone in this forum not have health insurance?

Reform the system yes, Universal healthcare no. I work in healthcare and saw what the threatened Clinton plan did to our department. Also when people don't have a stake in their healthcare costs, use of the system skyrockets, which inflates the problems of healthcare costs.

And I'm not going to provide links or quotes, because this is just from personal experience clinically.


I don't post in this folder much but I'm partial to the name Jessica

[jessicasimpson]

[QUOTE=latenight]Reform the system yes, Universal healthcare no. I work in healthcare and saw what the threatened Clinton plan did to our department. Also when people don't have a stake in their healthcare costs, use of the system skyrockets, which inflates the problems of healthcare costs.

Since Clinton's plan did not go through, how did it effect your department?

[gojujay]

The very thought of socialized medicine is frightening enough to cripple health care provider stocks and therefore healthcare providers.

[Fencergrl]

No worries.... when Canada invades the US... you'll all have socialized healthcare.

[jessicasimpson]

The very thought of socialized medicine is frightening enough to cripple health care provider stocks and therefore healthcare providers.

the very thought of socialized medicine would cripple the stocks of health care insurance providers, the cost of health care would go down, the quality would go up. Ask anyone that had had socialized medicine

[JEC]

That is an overly simplistic view of socialized medicine.... As a physician who has practiced in several countries including some with socialized medicine, I can assure you that you would not like to wait for ONE YEAR to get an elective cholecystectomy (gallbladder removal). Or to wait six months for that brain MRI study to see why you are having migraine headaches.

All Americans should have catastrophic health insurance and every children should have complete health coverage provided by the government, but this wouldn't cover prescription drugs for elderly. Unfortunately, the elderly are voters while children are not.

[jessicasimpson]

99% of our elderly are covered in the US by medicare. Medical care for the elderly is the only area in which the US leads the world. People who are middle class with no insurance could save for several years and still not be able to afford to get their gall bladder removed. I hurt my shoulder about 3 years ago, and it took 8 months for my hmo to get me x-rayed.

[esskreemr]

My mother is covered by insurance. She fell at work and tore her ACL. It took two weeks for the worker's comp to kick in for some reason, and over 2 months to see the surgeon for the consulation. Who knows how long before she will actually be operated on. Meanwhile, she has difficulty walking and is always in alot of pain.

[jessicasimpson]

typo, 4 months to look at my shoulder

[mrbiggs]

We have to compare the benefits to the negatives, though. The money necessary for universal healthcare is huge. Our government is already running at a deficit (of course), so this means that our taxes will go way, way up. Look at European countries with universal healthcare and such; France, Sweeden, and Denmark all pay multiple times what we pay in income tax. I'm sure there are better examples, but I don't know what they are off the top of my head.

So the question is not whether we want it, but if we're willing to pay for it.

An example is Social Security, a system put in place to, more or less, give the old and unable to work money so they don't starve to death. Now, I think that this is a pretty good cause, and most Americans would probably agree with me. But the Social Security system is broken; every generation, it gives out more money than it takes in. So does America look at this problem and decide that we need to take a raise in taxes in order to pay for the benefits they will receive later in life? No. Social security loses money as always, and we can just add some money to the national debt and have someone else pay for it.

We can't do this with universal healthcare, it's too big. If we are to pay for the healthcare of every American, it can't just be added to the national debt.
George W. Bush was barely elected in 2000, and many of his supporters voted for him because he promised to lower taxes.

So, in short, we need to raise taxes to pay for this, and I don't think Americans are willing to do it.

(And these are all opinions. I don't have any articles or anything...maybe tomorrow I'll get some.)

[JEC]

What you two are showing are examples of quasi-socialized health care. HMOs (as compared to PPOs) are rationing health care in a similar manner but not as stringent as socialized medicine. An ACL does not get reconstructed in non-athletes over the age of 40.

The problem in the US is that doctors practice defensive medicine, and every patient is not satisfied unless they get tested. We subsidize medical and pharmaceutical research and pay the highest prices for medications.

In socialized medicine, physicians adhere to guidelines (it is also their defensive medicine). Testing is only done in more selected patients (cost effective), and in whom there is a better chance that the test will make a significant difference in the outcome. In the US, people feel entitled to the last fad and most advanced diagnostic modality or therapy.

[JEC]

.. the question is not whether we want it, but if we're willing to pay for it.

I entirely agree, and our politicians also know that. Two years ago, I visited my Congressman and Senators lobbying for my professional organization. That experience taught me to respect the intelect of many of our elected officials. They were fairly well informed about many of the issues. The problem is how to be pay for it.

[Inquartata]

I entirely agree, and our politicians also know that. Two years ago, I visited my Congressman and Senators lobbying for my professional organization. That experience taught me to respect the intelect of many of our elected officials. They were fairly well informed about many of the issues. The problem is how to be pay for it.

Begin countdown to someone answering with "By getting out of that unjust war in Iraq and cancelling Bush's tax cuts for the rich!"

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[esskreemr]

Begin countdown to someone answering with "By getting out of that unjust war in Iraq and cancelling Bush's tax cuts for the rich!"

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I propose we sell Inquartata to the highest bidder. That would cover the cost of the first bandaid...

[esskreemr]

Begin countdown to someone answering with "By getting out of that unjust war in Iraq and cancelling Bush's tax cuts for the rich!"

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Nope, that probably wouldn't do it. Perhaps we could throw in defunding the retarded war on drugs, making the Pentagon more accountable, rolling the annual automatic Congressional pay raise by 10 years (make it retroactive so they have to pay us back). The options are nearly limitless...

[JEC]

We need to separate two issues regarding IRAK. Why we went there, from what can we do now. The first issue has considerable divergence of opinions, but clearly many people who wanted to get in there now know they were mislead. The real problem is that we can not get out now, and extrincating ourselves out of there will take a decade. We have created many problems there. We can not leave tomorrow or next January. We need to develop a better Energy policy in the US, so that the importance of the region diminishes. I completely support our troops, and the reasons to get into Afghanistan. I never liked the idea of getting into Irak, but we're there.

[JEC]

Nope, that probably wouldn't do it. Perhaps we could throw in defunding the retarded war on drugs, making the Pentagon more accountable, rolling the annual automatic Congressional pay raise by 10 years (make it retroactive so they have to pay us back). The options are nearly limitless...

- We could also reduce the prescription drug benefit to a generic drug benefit. It would also save billions of dollars over a decade.

- We could also decriminalized drugs and making drug treatment part of the visit to obtain them. Crime will decrease, enforcement cost would also decrease in cost.

[latenight]

[QUOTE=jessicasimpson]

Reform the system yes, Universal healthcare no. I work in healthcare and saw what the threatened Clinton plan did to our department. Also when people don't have a stake in their healthcare costs, use of the system skyrockets, which inflates the problems of healthcare costs.

Since Clinton's plan did not go through, how did it effect your department?

Because we got ready for it anyways........and it robbed us of what little ability we had to get capital equipment through

[Slim]

- We could also reduce the prescription drug benefit to a generic drug benefit. It would also save billions of dollars over a decade.

- We could also decriminalized drugs and making drug treatment part of the visit to obtain them. Crime will decrease, enforcement cost would also decrease in cost.

Both good ideas.

I'd also suggest tort reform to somehow put a cap on the outrageous sums of money awarded in malpractice cases. The drain on the healthcare system caused by insane malpractice insurance rates and the redistribution of money by cherry-picking attorneys like John Edwards can completely alter the way care and treatment is provided. No one in their right mind would become an OB/GYN these days.