Re: [CFML] Radaelli - The man.

Unfortunately, it seems that much of fencing history
(or people's opintions of it, at least) is based on
semilogical assumptions, and has been since Egerton
Castle's time at least. It's a good thing we have
people like Chris Amberger around...

--- Chris <c_holzman@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Russell,
>
> I got a response back from Sean Hayes over on SFI -
> and Sean related
> that Gaugler never said anything about horses etc.
> in relation to
> Radaelli. I can certainly see where perhaps some of
> that thought
> comes from. Check the link provided earlier for
> Sean's reply..
>
> I will say that I do have a fencing/duelling sabre
> in my collection,
> from the 1870's - its an absolute spitting image of
> a Radaelli, minus
> the branches on the guard. It weighs 20.5oz. I
> *can* make finger only
> cuts with it, but its not all that useful - wrist
> and fingers is
> better, controllable, functional..
> Elbow/wrist/fingers and suddenly
> we're really in business.
>
> More than anything I just get that feeling that it's
> nothing but a set
> of semi-logical assumptions. I'm rather afraid we
> may simply be in a
> situation of too many years having passed, to ever
> get any real good
> answers.
>
> *sigh*
> thanks,
> Chris
>
>
> --- In classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com, Russell
> Hogg
> <durendal78@y...> wrote:
> > I think this idea comes from the fact that
> Radaelli
> > was an instructor at the military fencing school;
> > i.e., as you said, sabre + military = cavalry.
> This
> > myth has caused all kinds of problems -- how many
> of
> > us were first told that the sabre target is the
> torso
> > because that's where you would aim your blows
> agaist a
> > rider?
> >
> > I know Gaugler mentions a cavalry mentality in his
> > "Science of Fencing" and I remember doing a double
> > take, since Radaelli's system is, I think, pretty
> > clearly oriented toward the duel (but off the top
> of
> > my head I don't remember exactly what he said or
> how
> > strongly he worded it).
> >
> > I think Gaugler claims that the use of
> elbow-driven
> > cuts is related to military application, but I
> would
> > be inclined to disagree. As anyone who has
> handled a
> > heavy period duelling sabre would know, these
> weapons
> > were not really conducive to wrist or finger-based
> > fencing (at least as far as circular cuts go).
> The
> > use of the elbow thus comes from a mechanical
> > necessity common to both weapons rather than a
> split
> > between military and civilian sabre practices.
> >
> > Doubtless some of the Radaelli techniques could be
> > applied to a heavier weapon on horseback, and he
> may
> > have taken that into consideration, but someone
> who
> > knows more about military sabre than me would be a
> > better judge of that.
> >
> > Despite any cavalry applications he may have had
> in
> > mind, the notion that he was "only interested in
> > mounted troops" is false. I don't know any
> fencing
> > master versed in his system who would make that
> > statement. The sabre system itself aside, why on
> > earth would he include a section on "spada"
> (duelling
> > sword) in his treatise if he only wanted to train
> > horsemen to cut down poor grunts with rifles?
> >
> > Of course, I may be misreading Maestro Gaugler's
> > beliefs -- one of his students may be able to
> correct
> > me if I have misinterpreted his text -- but even
> he
> > wouldn't argue (I think) that Radaelli was PURELY
> > horse-focused.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Russell
> >
> > --- Chris <c_holzman@h...> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Group,
> > >
> > > Please take a look at
> > >
> >
>
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=56831
> > >
> > > I posted this and then thought I might want to
> > > broaden my search as
> > > well, so I'm posting a link here.
> > >
> > > If anyone can provide any information about some
> of
> > > the claims we see
> > > reference to Radaelli, I'd be most appreciative
> of
> > > it.
> > >
> > > To reiterate - we see all kinds of claims that
> > > Radaelli was only
> > > interested in mounted troops - yet the treatise
> > > regarding his system
> > > says no such thing, indeed, it fails to mention
> > > anything about mounted
> > > troops, cavalry, horses, etc.
> > >
> > > Can any of you shed any light on where these
> claims
> > > might come from,
> > > and what sources back up those claims?
> > >
> > > Lacking any mention in the treatise, I would
> suspect
> > > that it must have
> > > come from the old myth that "fencing sabre came
> > > directly from the
> > > cavalry sabre" especially as cavlary was from
> the
> > > old days, and
> > > Radaelli was from the old days, and both used
> > > sabres..
> > >
> > > Anyone?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris
> > > --
> > > Chris Holzman
> > > Moniteur D' Armes
> > > River City Fencing Club
> > > Wichita, KS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
>
>




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