Open letter to OFA Judges

[victord66]

I have had the pleasure to begin fencing in local competitions here in Ontario, which are all sanctioned by the Ontario Fencing Association and follow FIE rules and regulations. These are called OCC competitions (Ontario Challenge Circuit) and are open only to C, D and unclassified fencers. This is a way to get inexperienced fencers into competition where very advanced fencers won’t overwhelm them and gives them a chance to compete with similarly skilled fencers. Even at this level of fencing though, I feel it is important to teach beginners the proper rules and regulations when presenting oneself on the piste. I have had the experience waiting on the piste while my opponent was called - didn't show up for five minutes. I do believe the rule is three calls, one minute apart at which time yellow/red and finally a black card is given. The same thing goes for faulty equipment. I had to wait during another bout while my opponent ran to his bag to get a replacement body wire and then proceeded to take his time while changing. He had neither a spare weapon or body cord on the piste. And sadly, some of the judges did not have cards.

It's all very well to give new fencers a bit of latitude, but I feel it sets a very bad example and it encourages bad habits that are then hard to break. If a fencer had to forfeit a few points or the bout or even the whole match, they would certainly be better prepared next time. I had a feeling that I was one of the few fencers who actually had a second working weapon and body wire on the piste. And regarding weapons, what has happened to the weapons check? How much does a foil/epee weight cost?

Even at lower levels of competition, there should be more teaching of and adherence to the rules; after all, even though the object of the sport is to hit your opponent with your weapon to score a point, we are all still gentlemen/gentlewomen and as such should conduct ourselves accordingly.

Yes, this is an amateur sport, but let’s act with a bit more ‘professionalism’.

[SJB]

At the unclassified, unexperienced level you want to encourage fencers. Not alienate them.

Thus, a little more lee-way with fencers who have either never, or barely, fenced any competitions is given.

Were it the Nationals or a CSC they would have doubtlessly been carded.

In terms of adherence to the rules it is their club and coache's duty to inform them of those.

[victord66]

A good point....touche...

[Amadeus]

What would be the purpose of being strict with beginners if it's really just a chance for them to compete with other beginners? Black carding a beginner won't help them with anything.

Of course, I think that the ref should certainly explain the correct application of the rules to them so they understand the consequences.

[randomsabreur]

Coming from a slightly different perspective as a referee and senior fencer in Britain, here are my twopennorth.

1. I seem to spend half my life refereeing small children, who tend to need herding in various directions, and can generally be found chatting somewhere else, or even at the end of the piste staring into space and blissfully unaware that their name has been called several times. For beginners and children, the best bet is to go and find them, or get their clubmates to find them, or get them called over a tannoy. I know that my voice does not carry well in a fencing environment, so I tend to get a nearby male to shout for me.

When the fencer has been extracted from wherever they have been, they should generally be informed what the consequences would be in a more serious competition, but there is no point in black carding them. Where small kids have parents attached, it is worth reminding the parents to keep an ear out for their little darling's name as well. If a particular coach's fencers are generally poor at being in the right place, at the right time and properly equipped, it might be worth getting a senior figure in the region to have a quiet word and suggest that they train their fencers in competition procedure. I certainly remember my coach informing me in no uncertain terms as to the consequences of being late, and not having correct equipment, and have only been late to piste due to reasons such as being too small to see my name on the sheet over/through the heads of the crowd of fencers surrounding it.

I don't know what your venues are like, but in the UK there has to be a degree of dispensation as regard toilet visits overrunning because you often find yourself in a sports centre which has a grand total of 7 or 8 cubicles (when we're lucky) for the couple of hundred female fencers, of which at least one is out of order. The queues can get rather large, and certainly were at our Nationals this year. Best bet is therefore to tell the referee where you have got to go to, and ask their permission, which is generally forthcoming.

2. For kit regulation breaches, again a degree of discretion should be applied. Where someone is obviously at their first competition, I tend not to card for the missing kit, but tell them to go and get them, sharpish. The card will come out if they appear to be taking their time. Again, rather more dispensation if there is a second failure and they mention a need to run to their coach/the equipment stand for more kit. I find that a friendly suggestion to all fencers to ensure that their kit works before the next fight, along with a mention of the fact that I will be using a test weight where appropriate works wonders for the smooth running of the poule.

Therefore, at a lower level competition, I find it generally more worthwhile to temper the card with a friendly explanation, or even not to use the card except on a second failure by the same fencer.

[kalivor]

I have had the pleasure to begin fencing in local competitions here in Ontario, which are all sanctioned by the Ontario Fencing Association and follow FIE rules and regulations. These are called OCC competitions (Ontario Challenge Circuit) and are open only to C, D and unclassified fencers. This is a way to get inexperienced fencers into competition where very advanced fencers won’t overwhelm them and gives them a chance to compete with similarly skilled fencers. Even at this level of fencing though, I feel it is important to teach beginners the proper rules and regulations when presenting oneself on the piste. I have had the experience waiting on the piste while my opponent was called - didn't show up for five minutes. I do believe the rule is three calls, one minute apart at which time yellow/red and finally a black card is given.

There isn't much to say to this other than that which has already been said above. The purpose of the OCCs is inclusion for a less-experienced group of fencers. These fencers are more likely to have no idea what's going on. Giving the yellow and red cards is OK, but the black card is a bit much for five minutes.

The same thing goes for faulty equipment. I had to wait during another bout while my opponent ran to his bag to get a replacement body wire and then proceeded to take his time while changing. He had neither a spare weapon or body cord on the piste.

I agree. This should have been carded. A yellow or red card won't be the end of the day.

And sadly, some of the judges did not have cards.

Doesn't matter. They can still penalise fencers without a physical card. In fact, I'm sure that I've seen referees at all levels of domestic competition without actual cards.

I had a feeling that I was one of the few fencers who actually had a second working weapon and body wire on the piste.

Clearly an exaggeration. The majority of fencers this past weekend had spares, if those who showed up on my strip were any indication. There were exactly two fencers on my strip, all weekend, without a spare. A third without a working spare.

Broken weapons, epees missing screws, weapons going wonky on the strip -- almost all simply switched to their spare, no problem.

No matter the tournament, the people without a spare by the piste will always be there. And because they're not properly prepared, their first weapon and/or wire will inevitably fail.

And regarding weapons, what has happened to the weapons check? How much does a foil/epee weight cost?

Leon Paul USA lists them at just short of 40 USD each. Because 400 USD to equip ten pistes with weights is expensive, and the weights have a tendency to disappear, you'll find that weight-checks are rare during pools and the early DE rounds, and uncommon in the later DE rounds.

[KD5MDK]

Swordmasters has the combo weights at $25 apiece, although I can imagine shipping is a pain. In any event, my understanding is that around here, large clubs, the division, etc each own a few sets and bring them (along with scoring boxes, reels, etc) to the competition, which rents them.

[victord66]

I want to thank all of you for posting your comments and ideas. It has given me pause to re-think my feelings on this subject and I've come to realize that all are very valid points. I shall try to be a bit more understanding and give a bit more latitude in the future. At the same time though I think it behooves us all to properly instruct new competitive fencers as to the rules and regulations governing sport fencing.

[RiseAndFall]

I have had the experience waiting on the piste while my opponent was called - didn't show up for five minutes. I do believe the rule is three calls, one minute apart at which time yellow/red and finally a black card is given. The same thing goes for faulty equipment. I had to wait during another bout while my opponent ran to his bag to get a replacement body wire and then proceeded to take his time while changing. He had neither a spare weapon or body cord on the piste. And sadly, some of the judges did not have cards.

Did any of those by chance happen at Ryerson? Probably me.
In my case it was totally inexcusable and I should have been carded. I was suprised I didn't get at least a red card for showing up way too late for my 1st pool bout. I can see why they'd be lenient though. There's fencers from my club who have no experience at an event like this and carding doesn't encourage them. At the same time in cases like mine, I deserved some sort of penalty and would have completely understood. At least now I always carry around 2 blades and 2 wires.