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Old 09-26-2005, 03:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Epee
True, but some training has a great deal to do with the reliability of the eye-witness.

A few years back, a friend and I were robbed at gun point on the street. Later, we went down to the police station to report the incident. We were interviewed separately, and both managed to describe the fire-arm in great detail. The assailants weren't wearing a masks, but neither of us had any specific memory of his face, and we both declined flipping through the known offenders mugshot book.
I've been attacked as well; it went with the territory where I lived.

There's a simple reason for why you could only visualise the gun. You can only take in so much. As a consequence your brain fixates on what is 'important'. In your case a gun; in mine a knife. There are some entertaining experiments that we can discuss which demonstrates this concept.

Quote:
I have no doubt that if this happened to an off duty police officer, or other trained professional, he would have been able to provide an incredibly accurate description of the criminal, and other relevant material.
You'd be surprised but their recollections may better; and it's more to do with experience.

Quote:
In this fencing specific case, I would imagine that the experienced/well-trained eye of a high level competitor/coach’s eye witness account could be trusted to provide an accurate assessment of the material validity of many straight touches that do not register a light. They could not identify every touch, but certainly enough to recognize a problem.
Whilst I cautiously agree:

The quality we are able to see this footage at would make me doubt whether you can pick up everything.

The video is a disinterested observer.

I'd prefer to see multiple angles and slo-mo as well - and that's the potential beauty of DVD (unrealised outside of ... umm ... adult films). Don't forget that if you are watching and, unless you are moving about [getting in others view] then your view is limited to one angle as well - with no replay. Interpretation becomes a much more important factor.

Horses for courses as they say. Both views (real and video) provide the opportunity to analyse the action. With Video you get replay without additional analysis (outside of your own head). With 'on the spot' you get to see it as it happens; and tap into the immediate impression. I don't see the point in discounting one view just because the other is rendered differently.

In my opinon there are a couple of cases where it appears both fencers have hit with no light, however they just got on with it and this provides some obfuscation. I would have to re-watch the clip to pick the moments out. And if my recollection turns out to be faulty then fair enough.

Perhaps I should also state that I am pretty neutral on the subject of failed hits. There are a lot of variables involved: some equipment; some technique; the best analysis I've read has come from the Italians (posted here by Gladius). It's difficult to say whether there were more or less failed hits due to the absence of proper scientific data gathered at the scene. I can say that the Foil was at least more interesting looking than at the start of the new timings; and different from the old. New rules, new environment - why assume that things will remain the same if the environment is different?

Sorry I'm wandering off topic now.

Last edited by Gav; 09-26-2005 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 09-26-2005, 03:57 PM   #22
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/What Gav said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gav
And if my recollection turns out to be faulty then fair enough.
If only we had video of you watching the video, then we could be sure.

Anyhow, whether or not video has the core utility of revealing things about fencing -- the fencingchannel.tv site looks pretty promising.
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Old 09-26-2005, 04:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by wflaschka
You wanted something science-y, and the science-y answer is that the problem doesn't exist yet.
Truly you have a dizzying intellect!
Have you ever gone in against a Sicilian, when DEATH was on the line?


You've really outdone yourself.

You've experienced the "problem" yourself, but it doesn't appear to exist on the tapes you watch in your basement, so there is no provable problem?

I find this facinating.
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Old 09-26-2005, 04:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Epee
You've experienced the "problem" yourself, but it doesn't appear to exist on the tapes you watch in your basement, so there is no provable problem?

I find this facinating.
You oughtn't. But you may be playing dumb for effect. If you really want science, you can't rely on subjective anecdotal experience. You can't even rely on my experience, though you put a lot of stock in it.

Maybe you're confused and you don't really want science. In that case, you're free to join the discussion about video and personal experience. Your "that's unscientific" thing was a red herring to prolong the discussion and try to find a rhetorical way to "win". But it's really just a discussion.
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Old 09-26-2005, 04:30 PM   #25
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I'll let you look up the Cowpaste Experiments, and even though they're not perfect they are more convincing than anything than I've seen from you.

You're becoming the antiMulder.
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Old 09-26-2005, 04:50 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Epee
I'll let you look up the Cowpaste Experiments, and even though they're not perfect they are more convincing than anything than I've seen from you.
That's good, because I haven't provided anything.

And whereas cowpaste did actual work, you're just jabbing rhetorically from different (self-cancelling) angles, and not setting off any lights.
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Old 09-26-2005, 05:25 PM   #27
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Very ugly fencing. New timings have just murdered foil.
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Old 09-26-2005, 05:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wflaschka
That's good, because I haven't provided anything.
Don't sell yourself short.

You've managed to release a few more Wallyisms into the world.

That should count for something.
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Old 09-26-2005, 05:36 PM   #29
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help

i can not view the videos it always said i am disconncted!!!!!!!!!!!!


what do u think of the new fp production is it really good, or in other words comparable to the monal epee, does it have a lot of good commentary, view of the strip, slow motion,can you see the blades??

thanks
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Old 09-26-2005, 05:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Epee
You've managed to release a few more Wallyisms into the world.
Ah, my reward for deigning to talk to the troll. It's very hard to take you seriously at all.
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Old 09-26-2005, 06:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterF
Ah, my reward for deigning to talk to the troll.
Deign-deign-deign went the Wally
Deign-deign-deign went his smell

You're lucky I'm here.

Deep down you know it.
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Old 09-26-2005, 07:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Epee
You're lucky I'm here.

Deep down you know it.
Depends what you mean by "lucky". I think the schtick was off at the beginning, but with polish and exercise you'll be exactly what you want. But you won't get affirmation from me.

/and no, the song didn't stick in my head. Nice try.
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:41 PM   #33
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I have an issue with these videos. I have a few of them and the footage is good but the commentary is really annoying. Those two Mexican guys talk too much and they have a bad attitude. Now the all American white boy's talking is much better. He has no illegal alien accent and he has a nice personality.

I say ditch the two mexicans and keep the white boy. Other than that the footage is really good.
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