Re: [CFML] Radaelli - The man.

Russell,

I got a response back from Sean Hayes over on SFI - and Sean related
that Gaugler never said anything about horses etc. in relation to
Radaelli. I can certainly see where perhaps some of that thought
comes from. Check the link provided earlier for Sean's reply..

I will say that I do have a fencing/duelling sabre in my collection,
from the 1870's - its an absolute spitting image of a Radaelli, minus
the branches on the guard. It weighs 20.5oz. I *can* make finger only
cuts with it, but its not all that useful - wrist and fingers is
better, controllable, functional.. Elbow/wrist/fingers and suddenly
we're really in business.

More than anything I just get that feeling that it's nothing but a set
of semi-logical assumptions. I'm rather afraid we may simply be in a
situation of too many years having passed, to ever get any real good
answers.

*sigh*
thanks,
Chris


--- In classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com, Russell Hogg
<durendal78@y...> wrote:
> I think this idea comes from the fact that Radaelli
> was an instructor at the military fencing school;
> i.e., as you said, sabre + military = cavalry. This
> myth has caused all kinds of problems -- how many of
> us were first told that the sabre target is the torso
> because that's where you would aim your blows agaist a
> rider?
>
> I know Gaugler mentions a cavalry mentality in his
> "Science of Fencing" and I remember doing a double
> take, since Radaelli's system is, I think, pretty
> clearly oriented toward the duel (but off the top of
> my head I don't remember exactly what he said or how
> strongly he worded it).
>
> I think Gaugler claims that the use of elbow-driven
> cuts is related to military application, but I would
> be inclined to disagree. As anyone who has handled a
> heavy period duelling sabre would know, these weapons
> were not really conducive to wrist or finger-based
> fencing (at least as far as circular cuts go). The
> use of the elbow thus comes from a mechanical
> necessity common to both weapons rather than a split
> between military and civilian sabre practices.
>
> Doubtless some of the Radaelli techniques could be
> applied to a heavier weapon on horseback, and he may
> have taken that into consideration, but someone who
> knows more about military sabre than me would be a
> better judge of that.
>
> Despite any cavalry applications he may have had in
> mind, the notion that he was "only interested in
> mounted troops" is false. I don't know any fencing
> master versed in his system who would make that
> statement. The sabre system itself aside, why on
> earth would he include a section on "spada" (duelling
> sword) in his treatise if he only wanted to train
> horsemen to cut down poor grunts with rifles?
>
> Of course, I may be misreading Maestro Gaugler's
> beliefs -- one of his students may be able to correct
> me if I have misinterpreted his text -- but even he
> wouldn't argue (I think) that Radaelli was PURELY
> horse-focused.
>
> Cheers,
> Russell
>
> --- Chris <c_holzman@h...> wrote:
>
> > Dear Group,
> >
> > Please take a look at
> >
>
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=56831
> >
> > I posted this and then thought I might want to
> > broaden my search as
> > well, so I'm posting a link here.
> >
> > If anyone can provide any information about some of
> > the claims we see
> > reference to Radaelli, I'd be most appreciative of
> > it.
> >
> > To reiterate - we see all kinds of claims that
> > Radaelli was only
> > interested in mounted troops - yet the treatise
> > regarding his system
> > says no such thing, indeed, it fails to mention
> > anything about mounted
> > troops, cavalry, horses, etc.
> >
> > Can any of you shed any light on where these claims
> > might come from,
> > and what sources back up those claims?
> >
> > Lacking any mention in the treatise, I would suspect
> > that it must have
> > come from the old myth that "fencing sabre came
> > directly from the
> > cavalry sabre" especially as cavlary was from the
> > old days, and
> > Radaelli was from the old days, and both used
> > sabres..
> >
> > Anyone?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> > --
> > Chris Holzman
> > Moniteur D' Armes
> > River City Fencing Club
> > Wichita, KS
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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