Front knee when lunging

[ThinkBackwards]

whenever i lunge, my front knee always goes beyond the heel of my front foot. this is making it extreamly hard to recover. also my back foot is sliding because of this and i guess because i dont have very good fencing shoes yet.

but if anyone has any pointers a bout the knee or the sliding please respond!

THANKS!

[dramamine]

Kick more and don't stop kicking until your heel hits the ground.

Keep your weight centered, if you lean forward then you'll run into that problem.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Its amazing how many questions answer themselves. How do you prevent your knee from going over your heel? You prevent it by not lunging over your heel. If you have a coach, have him smack you every time you **** up and go over your heel. That'll break you of sucking eggs.

[pigeonmeister]

Not much more to say, except 'dont do it'. But there might be other reasons why you are overbalancing. Namely that you are not getting your distance right and are finding you have to lurch forward in order to reach your opponent. I'd think more about trying to maintain balance throughout all your movements and keep your head up when lunging, then you wont stoop. Maybe you are not taking a big enough stride into your lunge, thus you physically find it hard to keep your knee over your heel?

[Mr Epee]

Do exactly as I say...

Stand erect (athletic posture, both feet pointed forward)

Take a large, but comfortable (1-1.25m), straddle step.
(step with your front foot, leaving your back foot in place, both feet are still pointed in the same direction. Knees are straight.)

Keeping your heel in place, pivot your front foot forward.

Shift into the lunge position.
(Back leg remains straight, front knee is over front foot)

Torso straight, and centered.

Weapon Arm extended, Back arm Balancing.

Hold... Hold... Hold... Deep breath...
Exhale as you complete the next step

Now concentrating on your back knee, recover to your guard position.
(Remember to concentrate on pulling with the back leg.)
---------------------------------
Until you feel completely comfortable with this exercise, cease all other lunging exercises.

Repeat this exercise 12 times per practice session, and call me in the morning.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Do exactly as I say...

Stand erect (athletic posture, both feet pointed forward)

Take a large, but comfortable (1-1.25m), straddle step.
(step with your front foot, leaving your back foot in place, both feet are still pointed in the same direction. Knees are straight.)

Keeping your heel in place, pivot your front foot forward.

Shift into the lunge position.
(Back leg remains straight, front knee is over front foot)

Torso straight, and centered.

Weapon Arm extended, Back arm Balancing.

Hold... Hold... Hold... Deep breath...
Exhale as you complete the next step

Now concentrating on your back knee, recover to your guard position.
(Remember to concentrate on pulling with the back leg.)
---------------------------------
Until you feel completely comfortable with this exercise, cease all other lunging exercises.

Repeat this exercise 12 times per practice session, and call me in the morning.

you're teaching him virabydrasana I from tadasana??? well, it is pretty similar to lunging..

[Larrison]

You might try a mirror drill -- get/ find a full length mirror and practice your lunge and recovery, making sure you don't over lean (knee beyond your foot) or over kick (foot way beyond your knee). Spend at least 10 minutes doing this every day, until you can do a half dozen lunges & recoveries with your eyes closed without losing form or losing balance.

For sliding one of two things is happening. Either your shoes don't have enough traction on the floor, or you'rs over extending your lunge beyond your ability to control it. See above for the latter, but for traction search these forums for recommendations on shoes. There are a number of opinions on shoes, with as many recommendations as people it seems. I bought a fairly inexpensive (around $40) pair of racquetball shoes with the gum rubber soles, which seem to do a good job of gripping on linoleum and polished wood (such as in a gynasium). You might also check the floor surface itself -- a lot of venues which are shared between multiple sports get dirty pretty quickly. A little bit of dust or grit on a polished floor can really make it slippery, for example. I've seen seen a damp towel used to wipe off fencer's shoes between bouts to improve their traction.

[shlepzig]

Ahh, lunging such an easy to describe action, and such an easy one to get wrong.

Evaluate the entire action to discover why you have the problems you do.

0. Engard, it can all go south here if you do not have a proper foot position or balance. Front foot points forward (the lunge will go where your toe is pointed), back foot pointing at a right angle with the heel roughly inline with the front foot (this is the line of force your body will be following, make sure it leads where you want). Knees bent and weight roughly balanced, some people prefer equality, some people prefer a stance slightly back. Do exactly what your coach tells you not what feels right.

1. Extend first; Perhaps you are leaning over your knee because your arm is bent and you want to get a bit more reach.
Excercises to develop: Practice this by watching yourself in the mirror, watching your hand as you practice, and paying close attention to how your body feels when doing these things in the right order. If you have a hard time coordinating it all: slow down, do it right, then increase speed. Repeat a million zillion times every day at minimum, you may do more if you wish.

2. Simultaneously kick with front foot, and launch with back foot. If one is done before the other or without proper balance the action will become akward.

2a The heel kick out facilitates the front foot reaching to where it is going to end up as fast as possible. It also adds speed to the lunge and recovery.

Excecises: The coin under the heel kick. Place a coin under the heel of the front foot. When executing a proper kick, the coin should skitter forward. Do several lunges focusing on just this, then remove the coin and start putting the next piece together.

2b The back foot launch provides the power and reach to the lunge while the front foot will control the distance. From your balanced position you should have a bend in your back leg. This is the prime driver for the lunge, a little bend means a little lunge, a big bend means a big lunge, youth and physical acuity will vary.

Excercises: After getting your heel in gear, pop the back leg. This move must be explosive, like you are trying to clear a big puddle in the street. Concentrate on the muscles in your back legs propelling you foward when doing the lunge. When you land your back leg should be straight. Do 10 right at a time, the take a rest. Do not count any where the front foot did not kick correctly. Then do 10 right consecutively, your objectivity with yourself about the right and wrong will make you a better fencer.

3. Putting it all together: With the front foot kick, and the back foot pop all ready, you have to put the two together into a proper lunge. The kick needs to take you to right where you want to end up, and the pop needs to get you that far in a hurry. Over-kicking will drag the back foot, because your pop came up short. Over popping will put your knee so far in front of your front foot you will fall on your face. Under-kicking, will put your heel behind your knee, and under popping will make your lunge slow and lethargic (watch out for the tendancy to fall from your back foot without popping). Not doing them at the same time, will make the action look like a spastic inch-worm and you will probably drag your back foot, and pull through with your front foot.

(don't forget the back arm extending)

Excercises: Lunge, lunge lunge, occasionally do a self check to make sure that the pieces are all falling into place. Lunge, note, adjust, lunge again making sure of the adjustments. Do it slow then speed up to get it right. This should be repeated about a million zillion times too. 50 lunges in a set are a good number, make sure to get it right.

4. Recover, this is the last part of the lunge. Always practice lunges with a recovery. Otherwise you get lazy when you bout and over lunge and don't recover. There are times you should do this, but it should be because you mean to, not because your knees have decided they don't want to. Recover with both legs not just the front, pull with the back so you do a lunge in reverse not lever yourself back up on your outstretched back leg.

Overall the lunge should start from a good en-gard and unfold like a steel trap. I have developed and recovered from every bad habit in the book on this one. These are the excercises that got me back into some proper form.
To answer the other eternal questions about the lunge:
Q. How far should I lunge? A. Just to the target.
Q. How fast should I lunge? A. Faster than your opponent can get away.
Q. When should I lunge? A. Whenever you need to.
Q. Can I touch the strip with my non-weapon hand? A. Sure but don't tell me what a great lunge it was.

Shlep.
(sheesh does this guy ever write a short post)