gluing coated "colored" blades

[Joe biebel]

Has anyone had this problem? I recently wired 12 new foil blades. Eight of them were "colored" blades. That is, coated with some sort of coloring. I prepared the blades, carefully cleaning the groove and using alchohol as a final preparation. I wired all of the twelve blades using (superglue) CA. Since then four of the blades (all colored) have had their wires pop out. I have never had this happen with a CA glued wire before. When I went to rewire one of the blades, I could very easily remove the remainder of the wire with a very light pull.

As an experiment, I took a foot long piece of wire and CA glued it back into the groove. I prepared approximately 6" of the groove with a dremel tool grinding the the coating (Coloring) out of the groove. After letting the CA dry, the part that I prepared with grinding had to have the wire chiseled out, the part that had the coating could be easily pulled out.

I wish I had tried this experiment before wiring them initially. By the way, there were two different blade forges in the four blades that failed so far.

I have not tried any other glue for wiring for a vey long time. Have any of you had experience with a similar problem? Do other glues hold with the coated blades OK?

[Swordmaster]

Joe,
I have found that CA glue will work best when used on a blade that has a raw metal surface. I do this by dremeling every blade, even brand new ones. I do this because of two reasons, I have worked with and sold super glues for 30 years and I know the properties of the compounds and how it will react to different surfaces, and I have run into the same problem you have had with colored blades.

[WhipLash]

i juz rewired my BF blue and been using it for 3 weeks. no problems here. i use ca glue as well. logically ca glue should not have preferential adhesive strength but your experience sounds convincing. but then again...why would there be a metal coating in the groove?

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by WhipLash

i juz rewired my BF blue and been using it for 3 weeks. no problems here. i use ca glue as well. logically ca glue should not have preferential adhesive strength but your experience sounds convincing. but then again...why would there be a metal coating in the groove?

I would guess that the blade is coated, treated whatever, after the groove is made, so even the "U" shaped channel gets the coating.

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

Joe,
I have found that CA glue will work best when used on a blade that has a raw metal surface. I do this by dremeling every blade, even brand new ones. I do this because of two reasons, I have worked with and sold super glues for 30 years and I know the properties of the compounds and how it will react to different surfaces, and I have run into the same problem you have had with colored blades.

Thank you. I will "dremel" the grooves on at least the coated blades in the future. I will choose uncoated blades whenever possible. I do not understand the reason for coating an FIE blade, except perhaps you like the "look" of it. I have noticed little or no rusting on maraging blades and the coating looks like crap even after short usage.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

Joe,
I have found that CA glue will work best when used on a blade that has a raw metal surface. I do this by dremeling every blade, even brand new ones. I do this because of two reasons, I have worked with and sold super glues for 30 years and I know the properties of the compounds and how it will react to different surfaces, and I have run into the same problem you have had with colored blades.

I do the same thing....because I had teh same problem Joe had....isn't that a FUN job on the amount of blades a vendor buys?? I was hearing that Dremel whine in my nightmares!

Joe...if using a Dremel. don't use a emery board or fibreglass wheel to lean it...those are REAL good for cutting the tang, but they cut TOO much.

Instead, use a diamond cuttiing wheel...it cuts metal, but reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally slow..perfect for grinding out the coating or a glued in wire.

[yeoldearmourer]

Here again the dremel tool the armourer best freind. I still on the color clean them first because of the oil coating and clean after running the dremel down the groove to get any loose particles out of the groove

[Joe biebel]

Purple Fencer,
Are you talking about the Dremel, Type 545 Diamond Cutting Wheel?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

Purple Fencer,
Are you talking about the Dremel, Type 545 Diamond Cutting Wheel?

That's the one....I haven't bought one in a while, so I forgot the code (I need to, tho...down to my last one)

[penguin_2000]

Originally Posted by WhipLash

i juz rewired my BF blue and been using it for 3 weeks. no problems here. i use ca glue as well. logically ca glue should not have preferential adhesive strength but your experience sounds convincing. but then again...why would there be a metal coating in the groove?

I think the "blue" blades are a product of the manufacturing process. Whether they anodize or heat treat it to get that color I don't know. The color blades are seem to be a coating, maybe chemical vapor deposition or something similar, which causes it to not adhere.

to the guys who've dremeled the grove before. Do you think using a razor to scrape the groove would be sufficient to remove the coating? I don't own one and don't really want to buy one, but I'd like to use colored blades for their rust resistance... Thanks.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by penguin_2000

to the guys who've dremeled the grove before. Do you think using a razor to scrape the groove would be sufficient to remove the coating? I don't own one and don't really want to buy one, but I'd like to use colored blades for their rust resistance... Thanks.

That would probably work well for someone with a LOT of experience using one...after awhile you get a feel for how clean the blade's getting...I prefer to let a Dremel whizzing around at a few thousand rpm do the work for me, tho....faster and less physicality involved.

I think it was actually Tim who turned me on to that wheel...

Whatever methos you use....as long as you see bare, shiny metal in that groove you're good.

Re the rust resostance of the colored coating...I've never found it to be that good once the blade's out of the controlled environment of a warehouse post manufacture...once the thing goes into a bag with wet clothes piled on top of it, all bets are pretty much off...but by that time, the coating's really done it's job...rust prevention between manufacture and sale, and as a p[retty selling point.

[penguin_2000]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Re the rust resostance of the colored coating...I've never found it to be that good once the blade's out of the controlled environment of a warehouse post manufacture...once the thing goes into a bag with wet clothes piled on top of it, all bets are pretty much off...but by that time, the coating's really done it's job...rust prevention between manufacture and sale, and as a p[retty selling point.

Well, that sucks...

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by penguin_2000

Well, that sucks...

So does my spelling by the look of my last few posts!