In Foil how many Parries?

[big daddy]

I was thinking about how many parries do I really use in foil. I know about nine but I only use Four. Four . counter six , six and eight. those of you that fence or coach foil how many parries do you use and or teach?

[reawl]

My coach likes to remind me that all you really need for foil are parries four and counter-four (or six and counter-six alternatively).

[Tiwaz]

My coach likes to remind me that all you really need for foil are parries four and counter-four (or six and counter-six alternatively).

What about octave and counter octave and to a lesser extent septieme and counter septieme?

when i fence and when i coach i regularly use the four basic parries and their counters and neuvieme can be very useful against left handers.

[Allen Evans]

My coach likes to remind me that all you really need for foil are parries four and counter-four (or six and counter-six alternatively).

Amazing. What about the low line targets? Does no one hit you in your flank?

I tell all of my students if they want to make their first attack against an unknown opponent, they should try to hit the flank. If they score - and their opponent doesn't look as if they have a clue how to defend that target - then their work is probably done at that point. They can keep hammering that target through a variety of means until the bout is over and they've won.

If the opponent steps back, makes an eight parry, and hits them with a riposte, well, then, they're really going to have to fence to win the bout!

[CheekyCanuck]

I use all of them. I know that sounds like I know what I'm doing, but what ever works.

I'm curious about neuvieme though. My coach doesn't use it and doesn't teach it and I've only read one description of how to do it, but I didn't think it was well written. Does anyone know of a link that describes it well, preferably with pictures?

[WhipLash]

i've been using prime alot these few weeks. mainly in what situation do we do counter septime/octave

[jBirch]

4, counter-6, RoW and footwork. Lots and lots and lots of footwork. Sure, there is a place for other parries, especially against opponent's that know how to attack into the low line, but your primary parries are always c6, 4, RoW and simply not being there or using your body to cause a flat.

James.

[HDG]

4,6,7,8 (and their respective counters); I find 9 useful against flickers, but I have to be very careful about the angle of my hand and the distance of it from my torso. 1 occassionally (good for close distances); 2,3 & 5 never, although sometimes a bad 4 winds up in the 5 position.

[rory]

Quarte and sixte, with counter-quarte and counter-sixte for general use.

For low line attacks I mainly use seconde instead of octave as it's stronger, and I (still) look for the flick to shoulder as riposte, usually off a beat parry. Octave is good when stepping in, perhaps taking the blade in octave and scoring "round-the-back-of-the-head" in a prime position as a surprise attack on prep.

Septieme's good for the pick-up-and-flick against a lunging opponent who's over extended. Prime's great against an opponent who presses forward very hard: step in, take prime, riposte stomach/chest.

Tierce for opponents who flick shoulder, nieuveme for tall opponents who flick shoulder . Can't think the last time I used quinte in foil.

And as jBirch says, footwork and counterattacks

[kalivor]

I use all of them. I know that sounds like I know what I'm doing, but what ever works.

I'm curious about neuvieme though. My coach doesn't use it and doesn't teach it and I've only read one description of how to do it, but I didn't think it was well written. Does anyone know of a link that describes it well, preferably with pictures?

You'll find that different coaches have different "neuvieme" parries, which is generally just a pet variation on an existing parry. Personally, I try to avoid referring to parries as "neuvieme."

As for the question, what do I use?

Quarte, counter-quarte, six, counter-six, octave, septieme, an elevated septieme, counter-septieme, prime, seconde and an elevated tierce, for the most part. I do use an occasional quinte or normal tierce, though much more rarely.

Hmm. I suppose I use a lot of parries. Most of them, even. Which is deceptive, as I really don't pay much attention to what parry I'm using. I'm generally more concerned with distance, and gaining RoW ...

[Tomas N]

I was thinking about how many parries do I really use in foil. I know about nine but I only use Four. Four . counter six , six and eight. those of you that fence or coach foil how many parries do you use and or teach?

There's more than one way to do a parry four though. How do you teach it? A beat parry? A deep parry? I've probably been taught a four or five different "proper" parry fours...not that I remember or execute any of them in the proper way.

Tomas

[Feraud]

Traditionally there are 8 parries in foil
But I use 9

Parry 9 = RUN AWAY!!!

[needle]

Traditionally there are 8 parries in foil
But I use 9

Parry 9 = RUN AWAY!!!

I prefer to call that one parry zero, since there is actual parry 9 (aka neuvieme), though I don't think it's as useful in foil as it is in epee.

[CvilleFencer]

Okay, I'll bite. What the hell is neuvieme? I probably use/teach it, just without the silly name... As to parries, I pretty much use them all with the exception of 7 and circular 7. I prefer 1 or a transferment to 8 instead of 7 or its counter.

Allen will probably groan and roll his eyes at this as he has heard this bit of insanity before, but I have this thing in my head that I am trying to put down in practice, of a "modernized" system of parries for lack of a better word. Basically it is the same classical parries in 4,6,7,8 but would have the pronated and supinated use of the parry taught as variants instead of completley different parry lines while 1, 2, 3 and 5 are taught as seperate parries. For example instead of 1 being a pronated 7 it would be it's own parry used either high or low to block, for infighting, as a take, ect and 5 would be more like the saber 5 used to defend against the coupe or flick and so on.

Maybe a little nuts and a lot of work and nothing may come of it, but it makes more sense to me and opens up a lot more lines of parry to deal with things. It seems to me that learning them as seperate parries instead of a situational use of an existing parry would be better for muscle memory and retention for students. At least thats the theory...

[Allen Evans]

Okay, I'll bite. What the hell is neuvieme? I probably use/teach it, just without the silly name...

Neuvieme is "9" sort of a high seven. I think I've seen you do it, without the name.

(laughing) I won't roll my eyes, but from your descriptions here and previous it sounds as though you're just reinventing the wheel, and perhaps even approaching the concept of "parry" backwards.

A parry should never be thought of as an ending position with a label or name. The parry is a dynamic action that interrupts the attack and gains control of the blade, either for a transport, or to prevent the attack from arriving. In the end, the "names" of the parries don't mean squat. It's the ACTION of the parry that fulfills the purpose, and you could call them "alpha", "beta" or "spot", "lassie" or whatever and it wouldn't change the nature of the parry.

I find that advanced fencers simply parry the attack, and don't worry about whether they did a "four" or a "lassie" as long as the blade is controlled and the riposte is natural.

When you finish with your designs, though, trot them out and show them to me. I'm curious where you are going to end up with this.

[mrbiggs]

I probably use 4,8,1,6,2 from most to least often. I don't really use parry 7 often, and I don't really know how to do parries 3 and 5 correctly. I only put parry 2 in there because I break my wrist sometimes when attempting to parry 8, and it seems to me that that's a parry 2.

I also use the flick parry from time to time, which doesn't really have a number. (Certainly not a universally used one.)

[El Chucko]

For anyone who doesn't teach or use the low-line parries, please continue...



I rarely compete in foil these days, but when I do, I get alot of touches in 8!

Thanks.

[Cipher]

I'm not the greatest foilist, but I use 4, 6, 8, 2, 1, and counter-6. I parry attacks into my 7, but it's not the parry 7 that I have been taught. It's more like a downward cross between a 7 and a 1. There isn't much of a riposte after that... not a pretty one at least, but that's what a lack of practice and coaching will get ya.

I have used a high 3 at times, but it's not something that comes up often. I don't think I have ever really bothered with 5. I've been shown a 9, but it was more like a severely pronated sabre 5 than what has been described here. I've never come across a situation where I felt that would be useful.

[akaiyuki]

Duckkkkkkk!

[dramamine]

Well I do 4,6,7,8,1, and 2, sometimes I do a "parry" 3 on lefties which is more a step in with my hand sort of back in 3 with my elbow tucked in (i'm right handed).

I like 7 on right handers against lower attacks where most people would do counter 6 because it is a stronger take. In fact if you saw me do it you might just think it was a counter 6 because as soon as I feel the contact I do a coupe and riposte the same way you would from counter 6, but I'm thinking "7". It's good for pulled hand attacks too, interchangeable with prime I guess.

like Kalivor I don't really think about what parries I do when I'm on the strip though (especially if I'm fencing someone good). In fact the only time I think about my fencing is on this board or talking to my coach