Telegeny of clear visor masks ?

[Alan]

Seen a recent thread in the French fencing forum :

http://www.escrime-info.com/modules/...viewtopic.php?
topic_id=5893&forum=17&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&sta rt=0

The question was
are clear visor masks more telegenic ?

The unanimous answer is no !

Not a big poll but it seems that his Majesty likes making decisions
against the will of the fencers themselves.

[downunder]

Alan abusing Msr Roch? What is this world coming to?

[Alan]

Alan abusing Msr Roch? What is this world coming to?

I would say King René abusing a majority of fencers !

But that 's not new ;-)

[downunder]

Att: Alan goes on vendetta about leader that has done good things and bad things

News at 11.

[Epee Scherma]

Most fencers don't want to wear a visor mask. It makes me wonder why the upper administration of FIE spends so much time over this "telegeny" (which isn't a word btw) of fencing. No one likes their mask plan. What would make fencing better? If governing bodies like FIE thought about improving the clubs, coaches, and "grass-root" level things that are vital in keeping fencing alive. Then, ultimately ....maybe a few millenia later... they will get their..... "telegeny".

And who gives a damn about if fencing was on TV often? FIE needs to worry about other issues. Fencing on TV is nothing but frosting on a cake or a tip of the iceberg when it comes to creating a successful, well rounded, diverse fencing community!

[rcmatthews]

I saw the World Badminton Championships on TV a few days ago. There are a few things I noticed.

1) girls in short skirts dancing around
2) arrowhead stadium (i think thats it) was filled up with people
3) badminton did not have to change its rules to get on TV


Also, if you watch footage of people fencing with visor masks, you can rarely see their eyes becuase of the glare of the lights reflected in the visor. Almost the only time when you can see into the mask is with a closeup.

[wflaschka]

Improving clubs, coaches and the grass-roots things is the province of the national federations (USFA level) and their sub-federations (sections and divisions). When it comes to the FIE, they're not going to be telling the USFA how to run itself, or setting prices for local competitions, or getting coaches to not-click the blade during lessons; rather they're going to be occupied by the "big picture" stuff. That involves growing fencing globally, and keeping fencing in the olympics, which sometimes sounds like a 24/7 job. So they're keeping up their end of the bargain by fiddling nonstop with stuff that impacts everybody, annoying as it is.

And who gives a damn about if fencing was on TV often?

This is a question I've been meaning to ask. Last year, after the Olympics, we had a comparatively huge number of newbies come into our university class. Few of them, however, said that they had seen fencing on TV. However, this year, we have many fewer new fencers. Has anybody else seen a drop in adoption from last year?

Nominally, more TV = more people who see fencing = more people trying fencing = more fencers, more $ for coaches, and better fencing with more variety. Mileage may vary.

[oso97]

Improving clubs, coaches and the grass-roots things is the province of the national federations (USFA level) and their sub-federations (sections and divisions). When it comes to the FIE, they're not going to be telling the USFA how to run itself, or setting prices for local competitions, or getting coaches to not-click the blade during lessons; rather they're going to be occupied by the "big picture" stuff. That involves growing fencing globally, and keeping fencing in the olympics, which sometimes sounds like a 24/7 job. So they're keeping up their end of the bargain by fiddling nonstop with stuff that impacts everybody, annoying as it is.

This is a question I've been meaning to ask. Last year, after the Olympics, we had a comparatively huge number of newbies come into our university class. Few of them, however, said that they had seen fencing on TV. However, this year, we have many fewer new fencers. Has anybody else seen a drop in adoption from last year?

Nominally, more TV = more people who see fencing = more people trying fencing = more fencers, more $ for coaches, and better fencing with more variety. Mileage may vary.

Actually, my beginner classes are running about 30-40% larger than last year at this time. And because I track where they come from and where they are referred from, I know that the increase is directly due to increased advertising at the rec center, word-of-mouth recomendations, better web presence, and other basic "brick-and-mortar" concerns.

What is that old saying "Think Globally, Act Locally." It applies here too.

[Inquartata]

Has anybody else seen a drop in adoption from last year?

We have had a quite sizeable increase in interest at my club...and not one has mentioned the Olympics. To the extent that they give a motive at all, it's the usual fare: "I've always wanted to try it" and "It looked like fun", along with a smattering of Zorro/Cyrano/Princess Bride references...

As to Roch, Alan may harp on a single note, and it may not be a terribly harmonious one for some to hear, but that does not mean that he is wrong.

[achilleus]

As to Roch, Alan may harp on a single note, and it may not be a terribly harmonious one for some to hear, but that does not mean that he is wrong.

Being right does not make 480 posts (worded the same way) on any one specific topic any more right or interesting.

In fact, when I bothered to read Alan's posts, the more I read, the more I hoped Roch's changes would stick just so he would quit the sport and stop posting...

[rcmatthews]

Improving clubs, coaches and the grass-roots things is the province of the national federations (USFA level) and their sub-federations (sections and divisions). When it comes to the FIE, they're not going to be telling the USFA how to run itself, or setting prices for local competitions, or getting coaches to not-click the blade during lessons; rather they're going to be occupied by the "big picture" stuff. That involves growing fencing globally, and keeping fencing in the olympics, which sometimes sounds like a 24/7 job. So they're keeping up their end of the bargain by fiddling nonstop with stuff that impacts everybody, annoying as it is.

However much of what the FIE sets as policy trickles down to the USFA. The supposed test timings for instance (though I do like those for sabre). I think it is wise to be worried about the goings on at the FIE level because it is reseanoble to believe that their decisions will filter down to effect us.

[OROD]

We have had a quite sizeable increase in interest at my club...and not one has mentioned the Olympics. To the extent that they give a motive at all, it's the usual fare: "I've always wanted to try it" and "It looked like fun", along with a smattering of Zorro/Cyrano/Princess Bride references...

What??? You mean they didnt come in because they heard about the new timings and thought they were a vast improvement over the previous ones? No? That's odd.


.

[MikeHarm]

I've seen a lot more new fencers too. Probably because they saw the olympics. Non fencers seem ambivelant about the wonders of Lexan when I've talked to them.

I think that if you want people cheering for fencers it doesn't hurt to make them more recognizable. While I do like the Lexan masks and wouldn't be against them becoming the standard realistically I think more colorful stylish uniforms being allowed (they've losened up some, but they're still pretty bland IMHO) and letting people run more with doing artistic mask painting would work achieve the goal a lot better with less friction.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Now, if FIE wants the faces of fencers to be visible during TV-covered fencing:

Why not simply adopt a rule that both fencers are free to take off their masks for a short time after each touché? Simple enough, and no new stuff to buy. Also, since almost all fencing on TV is shown time-shifted, excess face-showing can be edited.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Durando]

[QUOTE=wflaschka This is a question I've been meaning to ask. Last year, after the Olympics, we had a comparatively huge number of newbies come into our university class. Few of them, however, said that they had seen fencing on TV. However, this year, we have many fewer new fencers. Has anybody else seen a drop in adoption from last year?

Nominally, more TV = more people who see fencing = more people trying fencing = more fencers, more $ for coaches, and better fencing with more variety. Mileage may vary.[/QUOTE]


This quote and a few others in this thread are so right on. When I first started in the sport in the mid eighties there was a lot of talk about how to get on TV, lots of pissing and moaning about how obscure the sport was, etc. TV was the holy grail. Thing is, the fencers in our club really didn't care that much about being on TV--we wanted to see European and Bloc fencers. In those days, there was no other way to do it. Now, since I go back a few years, I can tell you that the good folks at the USFA have done a tremendous job building the sport. If you date back to the mid eighties then you know what I mean. If you don't, then I hope you understand the debt that you owe to the local club presidents, tournament organizers, and elite athletes of that epoch who got everything rolling.

I now live in France and have just taken the sport up again with a sports association club. People are still *****ing and moaning about TV. Again, what they really want is just to see other fencers on TV from time to time. The profile of the sport here is much higher. And, indeed, there is a program on the cable sports channel that picks up the major competitions. But I don't think this necessarily contributes to the strength of the sport (which is what we, as fencers, should be properly concerned about). Our club has very low barriers for entry to newcomers. It does demonstrations in the sporting goods stores. And it does profit from a post-Olympics bump. Sound familiar? In fact, NEC Nantes reminds me quite a bit of UTFC Austin of 1986.

Fiddle with Lexan all you want--I won't wear it. Screw with foil timings all you want. Fencing is as telegenic as it is ever going to get. As it is it's breathtakingly beautiful. (If you really want to change things, train up the TV commentators so they understand the actions and the aesthetic). It will always be an "outsider" sport whatever that means. I mean, what's the goal? Clubs with memberships of 1000+? And who has the space? (I've got to admit, perhaps a third of the reason why I love this sport is the cameraderie). Professionals with fencing contracts? Do you want it to be like boxing? That would certainly kill it for me.

The question is, "Will the golden age be televised?"
My answer is "I don't really care."

[Durando]

Actually, my beginner classes are running about 30-40% larger than last year at this time. And because I track where they come from and where they are referred from, I know that the increase is directly due to increased advertising at the rec center, word-of-mouth recomendations, better web presence, and other basic "brick-and-mortar" concerns.

What is that old saying "Think Globally, Act Locally." It applies here too.

Right on, Oso. Get this: if the USFA gave summer colleges on how to run clubs (do they?), Oso should go up to Colorado with his databases and show everyone else how this is done. This is exactly the kind of effort that has nothing to do with telegeny and everything to do the reality of the sport.

[Alan]

Being right does not make 480 posts (worded the same way) on any one specific topic any more right or interesting.

In fact, when I bothered to read Alan's posts, the more I read, the more I hoped Roch's changes would stick just so he would quit the sport and stop posting...

Well you can hope ...

[oiuyt]

Right on, Oso. Get this: if the USFA gave summer colleges on how to run clubs (do they?),

A "Business of Fencing" segment used to be a part of the curriculum at Coaches College, but hasn't been included the past serveral yeras.

-B

[cfaustus]

Actually, my beginner classes are running about 30-40% larger than last year at this time. And because I track where they come from and where they are referred from, I know that the increase is directly due to increased advertising at the rec center, word-of-mouth recomendations, better web presence, and other basic "brick-and-mortar" concerns.

What is that old saying "Think Globally, Act Locally." It applies here too.

Amen!

We are overwhelmed with fencers this year and only one mentioned ever seeing fencing on T.V. and that was'nt even the most recent Olympics! Our primary draw seems to come from our own work: demos at the public libraries/museums, work with younger school groups, brochures and fencing at the many festivals held in our area, word of mouth, and of course a strong web presence. I have often heard people tell me they were happy to find us because they had been asking around about fencing for years. Many people often think that we are the only fencing group in the area. That could'nt be farther from the truth! There are a number of active clubs and salles in our area. I try to visit the other groups frequently and refer fencers interested in fencing as sport to one or two of them which I think will give them the best training for what they are looking for. It just seems like most fencing is sort of an underground activity. If you are going to stay underground, you can't complain that the people living above ground don't realize you exist. We all have to do a better job of promoting fencing... not just our groups, but the art itself.

What about a Divisional level campaign to increase public awareness of fencing and PR for the Division clubs? Has anyone ever done this? I am in charge of doing something like this for our division. It is my hope to get material to as many schools/libraries/etc so that when a kid shows interest in fencing/swords/dueling/etc someone will be able to point them (and their parents) to literature about fencing. Any PE instructor who is asked about the posibility of a fencing club at a highschool would be able to refer to some material from our division and at least have a place to start contacting the USFA to get things going. Any other suggestions/ideas?