Fencing and Math

[ra2000a]

every year, i have to do a math research paper. since it is my senior year, i hope to do something i actually want to write about. is there Any math in fencing? any ideas? or will there be nothing i can talk about?

[ThatReallyHurt]

There are impacts (both touches and parries), velocities (blade and fencer), geometry (using geometry and vector mechanics to show how much force is required for an effective parry would be neat)... lots of fencing stuff you can model with math...

[ViewtifulMisho]

Jimmy spent $839 in new equipment. At the first NAC of the season, someone steals $22 worth of his gear. At the second NAC, someone steals twice that, and at the third NAC, three times $22. Assuming there are 5 NACs Jimmy attents, and that the pattern continues, solve for the ratio of Jimmy's motivation to continue fencing to his parents' wishes that he would stop.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

how logical reasoning affects fencing, success of math/sci people in fencing as opposed to success of liberal artsy people.......

of course, that's more of a psychology/statistics as it relates to math.........

hrm.
nevermind.

[Larrison]

What Level math are you looking at?

At the simplest level, just lay out the revenues and expenses for a tournament (addition, subtraction, multiplication).

At the medium level, lay out the probability of getting a A level fencer in your pool or a DE given a tournament of X fencers, with N number of A level fencers, etc.

At the higher levels, calculate the force from a flick provided by a fencer moving down the strip at 10 miles and hour, whipping his hand forward at another 10 miles an hour, with a 34" foil at the end of a 32 inch arm. You'll have to estimate the properties of a mild steel blade to get its flexure and spring properties. This can be checked against the regulations for stiffness on a blade.

[Jvanhousen]

Originally Posted by ViewtifulMisho

Jimmy spent $839 in new equipment. At the first NAC of the season, someone steals $22 worth of his gear. At the second NAC, someone steals twice that, and at the third NAC, three times $22. Assuming there are 5 NACs Jimmy attents, and that the pattern continues, solve for the ratio of Jimmy's motivation to continue fencing to his parents' wishes that he would stop.

My version would be: Jimmy spends the $839, PLUS $500 for airfare, $100 for a rented car, $200 for Hotel, entry fees, food, airport/hotel parking etc. fences well, lucks out and gets good refs for a change, uses his brilliant analytical skills and hard learned technique to overcome his opponant only to find that the hits that are going to make the difference between winning and losing don't register because some ****wad in France ****ed with the ****ing timing and his foil game now resembles a certain pastime you can play in Las Vegas, which, now that he thinks about it, is probably a better use of his time and money nowadays. (plus not only can you drink to forget how you used to love foil WHILE you're rolling the dice, but the drinks are FREE)

[Purple Fencer]

REAL good use of math....determine how old certain fencers look....Jeff knows one of them I'm talking about!!!! It's like fencing Methusulah!

[ra2000a]

hahah. i need some high level math i guess. but some good ideas out there! though i dont think i'll use Jvanhousen's post. hehe

[sabreur]

Fencing is full of numbers, just like dance or music is full of numbers--tempo, distance, acceleration, angles.

The blade work of attacks and parries can be explained through geometry.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Originally Posted by ra2000a

is there Any math in fencing? any ideas?

...as long as you can count to 5 or 15 you should be alright...

...not much research though.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Every position can be described as a vector with joint angle values as its paramenters. Thus, all movements can be described as quartinions incorporating the joint angles and inter/joint lengths. One can see it as an application of the geomentry needed for a robot with a 3D workspace. That has been studied extensively, but you can apply it to a new use. Should be some math in there.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Army Fencer]

Here's an interesting idea:

Given two average, indentical fencers, what is the minimum force necessary to deflect a lunge, and at what point along the blade does this effect occur?

[wflaschka]

Originally Posted by ra2000a

every year, i have to do a math research paper. since it is my senior year, i hope to do something i actually want to write about. is there Any math in fencing? any ideas? or will there be nothing i can talk about?

If the math extends into statistics, it would be very interesting to see a statistical breakdown of, say, a team match.

You can do attacks vs successful attacks, breakdowns of where the attacks land. And the same for ripostes, counters. The conclusions would be like, "Attackers go for target X and frequently land there, but they have a higher success rate on the flank," or, "...this also shows that when remising from close distance, the best target is Y."

And if you love us, the team match will be between two well-known teams, and maybe you'll share it on the board! I know there's a fencingpictures DVD coming out with the La Coruna team (foil) final between France and Italy. It's well shot so you'll be able to see everything. Expense something as a school project! Finally, if the match you choose is fenced under the new timings to the conclusions would even be more interesting.

[RebelFencer]

ooh--

Cross benefit analysis between costs of lessons and the estimated percentage of improvement vs. no lessons and the estimated percentage of improvement.

[rcmatthews]

Better yet, comparing how the improvement benefits of cheap lessons versus expensive lessons.

[ShadyLane]

A math research paper, eh? Is this for high school? I never thought you do research papers for math...unless you're doing an undergraduate thesis or going to grad school where you can sometimes choose your research project...

Some of the suggestions given are more for a high school research project than others...Rebelfencer and rcmatthews seems more practical and easy to do in terms of calculating the statistics (mean, standard deviation, t tests etc.) and finding out if there's a difference or not (plus, you don't need to spend much to do the paper as opposed to wflaschka's suggestion where you would probably have to buy fencing tapes/DVD's and carefully watch it to collect data about target X etc.).

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by wflaschka

You can do attacks vs successful attacks, breakdowns of where the attacks land. And the same for ripostes, counters. The conclusions would be like, "Attackers go for target X and frequently land there, but they have a higher success rate on the flank," or, "...this also shows that when remising from close distance, the best target is Y."

I like this idea. How about going with a statistics paper and putting some real-life research into it? Go to a NAC or other big tournament and figure out what percentage of attacks (successful and unseccesful) are in what line (1 through 8.) Which attacks are parried the most often? What differences do you notice between foil and sabre? What differences are dependant on the level of competition (eg. the finals of a Div I NAC event vs. the finals at a Div III event)?

[rcmatthews]

Well, actually for my suggestion you would have to gather a large amount of data from fencers. And a question of relative improvement is highly subjective. My hunch is that high priced lessons definetly dont correlate to an increase in success rate, but I dont know if ther is a way that you could ever prove that.

[mrbiggs]

If you could do some stuff on old timings versus new timings, and the ideal timings for the foil boxes, that would be really cool. You could measure how often hits are deflected at different angles, with different speeds, and different blades, etc. And, possibly, why different hits don't register, and what can be done to solve the problem...

I don't know how good the math would be on that, though. And it's kind of crossing into science. But it's just a suggestion.

[ra2000a]

wow so many ideas. thanks guys! but im gonna after really read through all the ideas and put an outline togehter. yea, its for high school so im gonna need some complicated math .. probably at a precalc level.