USFA vs. USA Diving Coaching Memberships

[Mr Epee]

I was conversing with a former NCAA diving coach.

He holds a PhD, in Sports Management, and although he is not a lawyer he is an expert in issues surrounding sports related liability issues.

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USA Diving (The Diving equivilant of the USFA) takes a very proactive approach to the development and certification of its coaches.

All Coaching Members are required to attend a seminar titled USA Diving Safety Training for Competitive Diving Coaches and successfully pass an exam.

USA Diving also requires coaches to have current CPR and First Aid Certification. They prefer that this certification be obtained prior to participation in the safety seminar.

For professional development, in conjunction with the Safety Seminars, USA Diving also holds continuing education courses for its coaching members.

For more information on USA Diving Coaching Requirements
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USA Diving has these requirements for its coaching members, because they believe that it helps defuse potential liability resulting from negligence on the part of its coaches. If an injury occurs because the coach was not following standard safety precautions, then USA Diving can demonstrate that the coach had received, and understood the proper training information.

This seems reasonable to me.
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On the other hand we have the USFA, which has absolutely zero requirements for becoming a Coaching Member. A few years ago, I asked the USFA Office what the difference was in the memberships. They replied that they keep the names so if someone calls looking for a coach in a specific area, then they know whose numbers to give them.

What happens if the USFA took the phone call, gives the number of Coach X to prospective student Y, and Coach X's actions result in an avoidable injury to student Y??? Doesn't the USFA incure liability?

Considering the variety of amature coaching available in the US, I think that this is a very realistic possibility.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

You let the cat out of the bag. I think the reason the USFA does this is to dramatically increase the number of teaching situations available, and therefore increase membership. Its a mixed bag though, sure, you'll have more people competing, but you'll have many more buffoons teaching. I think its overall very positive, considering that people can choose for themselves who they want to be taught by.

[keith]

USFA vs USFCA cat fight?

[Mr Epee]

Aren't the USFCA and Coaches College more about pedigogical practices, and coaching techniques than safety issues...

Even so, both of those organizations require CPR certification.

There's a pretty big difference between passing on the intricacy/subtlety of modern fencing, with its various nuances - and standard safety issues.

[JEC]

It's interesting but the USFCA is the only one that has international affiliation.

[edew]

Speaking as a fencing coach, yup. I completely agree. I did take a CPR course (it didn't include first aid, which I think is more important than CPR: I don't have too many people who might keel over, but I do have people who may be impaled, as that's the nature of the sport).

There are no standards, no certificates, no requirements in order for someone to be called a coach. I'm a coach. But I could also be some fly-by-night character.

If we were to ask USFA for any assistance, certainly requiring some standards would be nice. Second would be some courses or sessions on the sports management (i.e., business) side of the job. However, given the amateurish and slow process of USFA, I'm not sure asking USFA to do that would be a good thing.

Perhaps the coaches themselves can form an association that will set the standards for being a coach, assist or offer information on business planning and such.

[oso97]

Perhaps the coaches themselves can form an association that will set the standards for being a coach, assist or offer information on business planning and such.

We have one that does all that and more. Its called the United States Fencing Coaches Association (USFCA).

[GGK]

Aren't the USFCA and Coaches College more about pedigogical practices, and coaching techniques than safety issues...

Have you participated in programs offered by either?

[Mr Epee]

USFCA Certification is not required to become a Coaching Member of the USFA.

[Allen Evans]

Anyone can - and often does - set themself up as a coach, advertise, and teach students without an iota of training or certification. Often they don't even get insurance unless required by the Parks and Rec or other program they are teaching at or under.

Fortunately, the number of catastrophic accidents in fencing is pretty rare and the sport (and its amateur coaches) have been lucky so far.

[GGK]

USFCA Certification is not required to become a Coaching Member of the USFA.

True...and problematic.
Perhaps a check list of certifications on the membership form, such as:
Moniteur epee
Moniteur sabre
Prevost foil
Level 1 epee
Level 1 sabre
Level 2 foil
Is that what you are suggesting?

[keith]

USFCA Certification is not required to become a Coaching Member of the USFA.

Yes but to be USFCA coach (or trainee coach) you are required to have first aid ceritification.

Certainly back in the day the British equivalent (BAF) was the same, I passed plenty of exams but in order to get the pieces of paper saying I had passed coaching exams and was a BAF coach I had to demonstrate competency in First Aid.

..... They still have my little certificates and I assume that after 10+ years they have moldered away.

[Mr Epee]

True...and problematic.
Perhaps a check list of certifications on the membership form, such as:
Moniteur epee
Moniteur sabre
Prevost foil
Level 1 epee
Level 1 sabre
Level 2 foil
Is that what you are suggesting?

I'm not suggesting anything, but I think that would be a bad idea.

For the USFA to officially recognize the USFCA and Coaches College - as criterion for being a "Coaching Member," then they are effectivly endorsing those programs.

Anyone can - and often does - set themself up as a coach, advertise, and teach students without an iota of training or certification. Often they don't even get insurance unless required by the Parks and Rec or other program they are teaching at or under.

Fortunately, the number of catastrophic accidents in fencing is pretty rare and the sport (and its amateur coaches) have been lucky so far.

Yes, this is fortunate.

Right now, I have a USFA Membership Card that says Coach Member. This is the sort of thing that helps establish trust. Usually, this type of card would be accompanied by certain prerequisite completion of certification... (doesn't nec mean extensive or comprehensive)

[Mr Epee]

And for the record,

I'm simply surprised that the USFA doesn't feel that it's important to protect itself.

Especially, when it appears the process is an industry standard.

[keith]

So is it possible for someone with no first aid training or coaching training to set up and run a USFA sanctioned fencing club?

[Mr Epee]

So is it possible for someone with no first aid training or coaching training to set up and run a USFA sanctioned fencing club?

Yes. In fact it's fairly common.

[cfaustus]

Not only does the USFCA require candidates/members to maintain CPR and First Aid training, but its testing/training includes sections on liability, safety in training and specific pedagogical practices to further ensure a safe training environment/session. In addition to pedagogy, you are also expected to have competancy as a director/referee. Overall, it was quite a bit more than I was expecting and I was very pleasantly surpirsed.

I highly recommend every fencing instructor or coach to look into the USFCA program. Despite some shortcomings, it is IMVHO the best program we (in the US) have for developing knowledgable competative fencing instructors and consequently a larger body of well trained fencers. Just studying the materials alone would make the average amateur coach much better informed about fencing and its instruction.

[keith]

Yes. In fact it's fairly common.

[GGK]

For the USFA to officially recognize the USFCA and Coaches College - as criterion for being a "Coaching Member," then they are effectivly endorsing those programs.

Coaches College IS the USFA's training program for coaches. Since the USFCA is "endorsed" by the FIE to teach coaches and the USFA is "endorsed" by the FIE it would make little sense for the USFA to fail to recognize the USFCA certification.

[Allen Evans]

Yes. In fact it's fairly common.

In fact, I would say it's more than "common", it is the rule, rather than the exception.

In Northern Virginia, where I teach, I would guess that 75% of the clubs are coached by fencers without CPR or First Aid training, or any coaching certification.

In Seattle, where I taught previously, I would guess the percentage to have been about the same. Fortunately, the one heart attack that did occur while I was there happened in front of the two CPR trained coaches at that club.

It is hard to know the USFA's mind on the "Coaching Membership" question. Establishing standards would mean enforcing them, something that would be very difficult for the USFA to do. Simply calling it a catagory of membership rather than an endorsement probably reduces their liability, in the long run.