Changes in the rules

[Walter]

I am getting back into fencing after an 11 year absence. I used to compete a lot and enjoyed it. We'll see how I do here in round 2. Skills are returning but slowly.

My question is this: what have been the major/minor changes in the rules and strategies in the last 10 years?

[neevel]

Let's see, you would've last been fencing in 1991 or so.

General stuff:
-The lights on the scoring machine are now reversed: the light on your side indicates that _you_ made a touch, rather than your opponent made a touch (basically, you just flip how the floor cords are plugged into the box).
-DE bouts are now 15 touches, fenced in 3 3-minute periods with a 1 minute break for coaching between periods (i.e., 15 touches haven't been reached by the first 3 minutes of fencing time, there's a 1 minute break). There's a new FIE rule, to be adopted in the U.S. next season, that in sabre a one minute break will occur at 8 touches if the first 3 minutes haven't been reached.
-Pool bouts are, in the U.S., 4 minutes. Next season, the new FIE standard of 3 minutes will be adopted. There is no 1 minute warning.
- Starting next season, falling is no longer an offense. Leaving the strip with one or two feet will now be treated the same in that the opponent gains 1 meter, but leaving with both feet is a 'hard' halt for the fencer going off the strip (i.e., actions under way will not score).
-When a pool bout ends due to expired time, the scores are not advanced to 5-x (i.e., if the score is 4-3, the fencer with 4 is simply listed as the victor but the score stands).
- The FIE homologation standards for uniforms are now 800 N all over, an 800 N underarm protector, and 1600 N mask bib. For U.S. competition none of this really matters, since FIE gear is still not required at any level. You need to have your name on the back of your lame/jacket or on the rear leg of your knickers in blue or black lettering. Colored uniforms and non-advertising designs on the limbs are now permitted, so long as the torso is a single, not-too-dark color (you'll a fair number of solid color lames nowadays).

The influx of Russian and East-European coaching talent that was getting underway in '91 has continued, resulting in a real jump in the level and availability of decent-to-excellent coaching, and the overall level of U.S. fencing. It used to be that any international medal for the U.S. was an extraordinary event; now it's fairly routine, especially at the Junior and Cadet level.

Foil:
There really haven't been many significant rules changes in foil for since 1991. FIE prez Rene Roch has a whole raft of proposals (including eliminating off-target hits and various box timing changes-- which won't work, btw-- to try and supress flicks), but he wasn't able to bring them to a vote at the last two FIE Congresses (smart money says most of them never will come to be).

There's been some movement in refereeing conventions to give a little more latitude to attacks into prep., but adopting a strategy of jut-and-lunge whenever your opponent moves their point out of line is still a fast-track way to d.f.l.-ing. Nonetheless, good coaches and fencers have been putting a decade's worth of work into tactics to handle flick attacks, so playing a pure flicking game won't get you all that far.

Sabre:
-The biggest change has been the banning of the fleche in sabre, which has greatly cut down on the two-rams-charging character of the game. Tempos in sabre are called very tightly, so it's still a very fast game, and requires superb footwork.
-Capteurs were eliminated in the mid-90's due to the reliability problems with them (if you have any old sabres, just clip the wire to the capteur and short the C and B lines of the body cord socket together), so there's no force-sensing for touches. In 2000, stiffer blades were mandated to cut down on whipovers and the back of the weapon hand was eliminated as valid target (the lame on the cuff now goes only to the wrist). This made parrying a more effective part of the game, but you still need to be sure to completely prevent an attack from arriving to ensure that the referee will consider the parry good.

Epee:
I can't think of any epee-specific rule changes. Since I don't fence epee at all, I can't make any comments on developments in tactics and strategy over the last decade.

That's what I can think of now.

-Dave

[lochinvar]

Welcome back, Walter! You're not alone; many in this forum have also recently re-started after many years' hiatus, and are experiencing just as much fun as they had originally. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

You don't say what weapon you fence, so here's a composite:

Rules: The only major rule change involves saber, where it is now illegal to cross the feet over. So, no more sprints down the piste with blade extended in an attempt to gain right-of-way. The rule change has pretty much killed the fleche in saber, though others here can probably detail ways to get around that.

Strategies: The biggest change in strategy you'll notice is the widespread use in foil of the 'flick' as an offensive tactic. (Basically, fly-casting with the blade so that the point curves around and touches the opponent.) The basic defenses are controlling distance and using tempo to attack into preparation.

Those are the biggies. Nothing much else has changed, so far as I can see--and I came back to the sport last November after a 12-year vacation.

Probably someone else can come up with some things I may have missed.

Again, welcome back and good luck!

[edew]

[quote]Originally posted by lochinvar:
<strong>Welcome back, Walter! You're not alone; many in this forum have also recently re-started after many years' hiatus, and are experiencing just as much fun as they had originally. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

You don't say what weapon you fence, so here's a composite:

Rules: The only major rule change involves saber, where it is now illegal to cross the feet over. So, no more sprints down the piste with blade extended in an attempt to gain right-of-way. The rule change has pretty much killed the fleche in saber, though others here can probably detail ways to get around that.

Strategies: The biggest change in strategy you'll notice is the widespread use in foil of the 'flick' as an offensive tactic. (Basically, fly-casting with the blade so that the point curves around and touches the opponent.) The basic defenses are controlling distance and using tempo to attack into preparation.

Those are the biggies. Nothing much else has changed, so far as I can see--and I came back to the sport last November after a 12-year vacation.

Probably someone else can come up with some things I may have missed.

Again, welcome back and good luck! </strong><hr></blockquote>


With regards to sprinting down the strip, the only thing wrong with the description is that it used to be that fencers would sprint down the strip with the sabre WAY behind their body or head, as opposed to the description above with the blade extended.

As for foil, flicking has been popular since the mid-80s. If anything, the flick has been made much cleaner and quicker. It used to be that fencers did these huge roundhouse arm movements to make the flick. Now, the action is tighter and faster, and done with the fingers or wrists only.

[neevel]

One addendum: the name on the uniform is only required for national-level tournaments in the U.S. You don't need it to fence at divisional-level tournaments.

Another change since 1991 is the much greater number and variety of national tournants. In addition to Div I (what used to be 'Open')and Junior/Cadet NACs, you now have Div.II/III, Veterans, and Youth NACs. You now need to have a 'D' rating or higher to fence Div. I NACs. Nationals has also been split into two separate competitions: Div. I and Summer Nationals. Div.I is the 'real' National Championships (i.e., where points count for World Champs team selection) which is often held earlier in the year so the team selection can be taken care of well before WCs. You no longer qualify for Div. I via Sectionals-- you need to have earned National points or else place high enough at J.O.s or the previous year's Div. I Nationals.
Summer Nationals are held around the first two weeks of July, and include everything else. The 'open' Div. I-A tournament at S.N.s is what Sectionals now qualifies you for (to give A and B rated fencers something to do there). S.N.s is a huge tournament-- there was one day last year where we had over 1,000 entrants among all the events going on, just for that single day.

-Dave

[Walter]

Why not penalize someone for falling? Is there that much corps-a-corps and jostling these days?

[D'Artagnan1673]

hehe, go to <a href="http://www.fencingfootage.com" target="_blank">www.fencingfootage.com</a>

Purchase a foil video such as the 1999 World Championships of mens, womens and team foil. You will see that corps a corps are highly prevalent in today's foil fencing. I also own the 1999 Epee counterpart and there is no corps a corps in that one, save mabye one or two. It is all in the nature of modern foil fencing.

[Puppet Master]

What is d.f.l.-ing. ??

&lt;(in pools) Next season, the new FIE standard of 3 minutes will be adopted.&gt;

OOO a minute. Will this really speed up the game, forgetting saber a moment, or just create more bouts that don't finish?

[Mr. Foilist]

[quote]Originally posted by Puppet Master:
<strong>What is d.f.l.-ing. ??</strong><hr></blockquote>

Dead F*cking Last-ing

[Purple Fencer]

[quote]Originally posted by neevel:
<strong>there was one day last year where we had over 1,000 entrants among all the events going on, just for that single day.

-Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>

I remember that day? I think it was the oen team epee and Div III mens' sabre.


Ahhhh....the SMELL of 1000 sweaty fencers!

[135711]

i don't think any of it is 'deliberate' in the classic sence of the word, i think it's a quick realization that someone's headed in your direction [obviously], and you're not able at that moment to retreat, so you use your momentum to keep going forward, to keep your balance, keep their point off you, and delay something until you can get en garde again, it's certainly not an intentional thing, like preplanned, and especially for a lighter weighted opponent, say a female at 140 pounds fencing a male at 180 pounds i would say it's risky at best, can knock the wind out of you, but it's better than losing 5-0, rather go out 5-3 or even 5-2 than 5-zip, it's training at its best.