World Championships Coming Up

[d8m]

Who do you think will win?
Who do you want to win?

And can anything, short of a bazooka stop the Italian Women Foilists?
Since 1990 they have:

6 individual gold in Championships and Olympics.

8 Team Golds in Championships and Olympics

10 World Cup point winners, and are poised to have another.

In fact 3 of the top 4 are Italians.

Romania is close with 2 of the top 5, but man Italy's got some impressive results.

Will any of the Americans do well?

[Pessina]

My money and my heart's with Valentina Vezzali. Forza Italia!

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: Pessina ]

[damianip]

Originally posted by d8m:
<STRONG>Who do you think will win?
Who do you want to win?

And can anything, short of a bazooka stop the Italian Women Foilists?
</STRONG>

Probably not even that. They are quite a team. Vezzali is heads and shoulder above everyone. In 2001 she won 5 World Cup competitions.

Trillini (Salzbourg) and Bianchedi (Buenos Aires)have won one each. Bortolozzi took second at Budapest. The Italian women took the top four places at the Seoul W. Cup. (Vezzali,Bianchedi,Scarpa, Trillini). Trillini took second in Beijing, Bianchedi took second in Paris, Granbassi was third. Granbassi also took second in Buenos Aires. Bianchedi finished second in Bucharest. The list goes on.

However, that said, they have won only one W. Cup team competition this year (Rochester), so they are not necessarily invincible. The toughest task for them seems to be who will fill out the last two team spots in any competition. Vezzali and Trillini are "given" but Bianchedi has Bortolozzi, Granbassi and Scarpa on her tail.

This is where the US has one of their best chances, along with women's sabre. The team is talented and balanced and seems to be returning intact from the Olympics.

I see the French men wanting to take back their dominance in épée (team and Obry with something to prove, Jeannet is also the hot "flavor of the month)") and the Hungarian women trying to do the same. However, on the French side, only Obry is returning. The Hungarian women will have to deal with a snubbed Flessel-Colovic who will certainly want revenge.

Rota and Milanoli had a good post Olympic season: Milanoli took a silver at the European Championships and a gold at the Mediterranean Games. With Srecki and Schmitt gone there will be competition for the title of next great épéeist of the decade. The Italian team must regroup with the retirement of Randazzo and the probable departures of Mazzoni and Cuomo.

It's probably the most open season in a while for épée. Don't forget Eric Hansen who's been steadily working his way up the rankings.

Men's foil: with Golubitski on apparent hiatus, it's just not that interesting for individual. Team should be interesting. Let's hope that China can finally lay claim to the title after being robbed two years in a row. France will have to back up the past two years with a decisive win (they have dropped l'Hotellier and Plumenail, should be interesting).

On the whole it should be very exciting. Too bad I won't be able to watch it.

Paolo

[d8m]

Originally posted by damianip:
<STRONG>

Probably not even that. They are quite a team. </STRONG>

I know. I should have said Nuclear Weapon.

Great assesment of the Worlds. But who do want to win?

In ME as long as Obry doesn't, I'm happy. The guy just acts like a jerk!

And I don't think Hansen really has that great a shot. He works hard and has taken advantage of a post olympic year, but I don't think his chances are that good.

The US WF... are they training as hard as they were last year?

What about Saber? I like Tarantino, and after Sydney he has something to prove.

[damianip]

Originally posted by d8m:
<STRONG>

In ME as long as Obry doesn't, I'm happy. The guy just acts like a jerk!

And I don't think Hansen really has that great a shot. He works hard and has taken advantage of a post olympic year, but I don't think his chances are that good.

The US WF... are they training as hard as they were last year?

What about Saber? I like Tarantino, and after Sydney he has something to prove.</STRONG>

I want to hate Obry because I also think he's a jerk, however (and I can't get my son to admit this, he's with you on this), he is an elegant, extremely effective fencer.

He very shrewdly played up Fischer's aggression against him in the semifinals of the individual comp to knock him out.

It seems that a low line attack is the way to get him. Both Kovacs in 1998 and Rota in 2000 finished him off in the team épée final by having Obry parry their attacks into his leg. I'd need a better look at it but it looks like that both times.

Another thing to look at if you get a chance to watch the men's team finals from Sydney is the difference in expression between Obry and Rota as they entered the overtime encounter. Rota has his game face on and Obry looks like he's going to hurl into his mask. He beat himself.

Who do I want to win?

ME: Paolo Milanoli ITA (He's exciting and nuts)
MF: Young-Ho Kim KOR (elegant and effective although not as much as Golubtiski)
MS: Tarantino ITA (Flamboyant) or Covaliu ROM(great gutty fencing)

WF: Trillini ITA (almost as good as Vezzali but, again, more elegant and exciting)
WE: Toth HUN or Mincza HUN (I think the Hungarian women as a group are the best female épéeists: Toth is beautiful to watch, Mincza is deadly and beautiful to look at)
WS: Nicole Mustilli USA (a long shot but a local heroine: I'm from Jersey, too)

Other faves and likely winners (LW)?

MF: Magni ITA (a head case Italy's foil answer to Milanoli) Bissdorf GER (LW), Sanzo ITA (LW and fave), Sobczak POL (fave), Guyart FRA (this kid's good).

ME: Kajak EST (nuts, but a fave), Meelis EST (my hero since he's built like me and can compete), Marcel Fischer SUI (he could be the next big thing), Kovacs HUN (this guy is fast)

MS: Medina ESP (fave), Touya FRA (fave and LW)

WF: The Zimmermans and Ann Marsh USA (long shots but...)

WE: Esteri CUB (a fave and an outside LW)

WS: I just don't know enough about the field. I haven't many of them fence


Paolo

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: damianip ]

[Cyranox11]

WOW Excellent analysis!!!
I am with the Italians all the way FORZA AZZURI (or Forza Bianci in the case of fencing ).
But I think the Russians will kick butt in men's sabre and dont write off Logounova in the Ladies' Epee.
Men's Epee will be a VERY interesting competition.
It will be interesting to see if the French can get over their repeated 'chokes' in the Olympics and actually convert some 'to the wire' finals into gold medals. In this department I think the Italians will beat the French every time. They have the balls to win!!!!

[damianip]

Originally posted by Cyranox11:
<STRONG>
But I think the Russians will kick butt in men's sabre and dont write off Logounova in the Ladies' Epee.
</STRONG>

She's really good but I just can't see her getting past the Hungarians or Flessel-Colovic, one of which is usually an inevitable meeting on the way to any final. I may be wrong, but I see her as an eternal "bridesmaid" at the major comps (WCh, WC GP and Olympics). Maybe as she gets a bit older this will change, I believe she's barely 20 or 21.

Paolo

[soos]

yo

i m french, and i even dont know who is in the team ... for individual they ll do what they want, but i guess we ll win several titles in teams (i mostly support teams cos here its france and not someone i may not like...) : EM,EW,FM,SM ..

and for the globub style, i think he as no really style , just awesomy effective...

do german have style ? i dont think so, classical fencing comes from france+italy...

and today style seems to change a lot, i guess we r loosing our classical style, even if french fencing school still has unbreakable typical points ..

PS : WC wont ever be on tv here ...

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: soos ]

[damianip]

Soos,

You think that Golubitski is not stylish? Hmmm...

OK, so what current foilist do you think has style?

Also, Eurosport is not even going to cover the WC? You're in France and even you won't be able to see it on TV? This is just wrong.

Paolo

[Haze]

I have never seen any fencing on Eurosport (not the British version anyway), A bit annoying really - they show sumo after all!

[soos]

nah nothing on tv ... normal or eurosport ...
no...thing

actually even if fencing is originally from france, and even if we provide the major parts of all history medals at OG to france, they really dont do much about WC on tv ....

i even dont know if they will make an exception for WC in Nimes !
if they do, we ll only have the final on tv ...
u know even for OG in sydnet (or in atlanta) where we did several finals... they only show : finals for teams and semis or 1/4 for individual ... and sometimes they even take the match in the middle ...

once at WC or OG they were showing a french in final (cant remember who, cos the following thing marked me 100000 times more...). That french won so -- World champ i guess, well they even didnt wait for the medal+national anthem ! they cut it to go on sthg else !!!!! THAT WAS A SHAME !

tv has nop respect for fencing and fencers here, really no respect at all, just they speak about us when we bring 7 or 8 medals to france ...

mother ****ers !

Only german care about their fencers for OG. They show them from the begining : 1/32 to the end ... the 3 guys involved + the team champ too. They do interviews with german fencers after matchs ! really great ! i sawa that on "das erste" on sat ... i remember that well cose i was trying to watch french fencing behind the germans (there was 4 pists in sydnet : red, green, yellow, blue..), and i was asking gods for a french fighting a german ! so that i could have it on german tv !

really journalist r mainly mother ****ers !

and to answer u about golub, well if i had to speak about french style, i dont know much international as i only fence national, but i have some friends that may be in this "style" i m talking about (friends that r in team france : top 10 french)
i could give u names but probably u wont know them..

a typical french style was Omnes, but i dont like him, he s a "jerk" for real !

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: soos ]

[Lord Byron]

What about Kolobkov. Surely he's always a chance.

[soos]

Originally posted by damianip:
<STRONG>

Men's foil: with Golubitski on apparent hiatus, it's just not that interesting for individual. Team should be interesting. Let's hope that China can finally lay claim to the title after being robbed two years in a row. France will have to back up the past two years with a decisive win (they have dropped l'Hotellier and Plumenail, should be interesting).

Paolo</STRONG>

the french team is :

Fleuret hommes
ATTELLY Loïc (Paris RCF)
BOIDIN Franck (Henin Beaumont)
FERRARI Jean Noël (O.G.C. Nice)
GUYART Brice (Le Vésinet US)

u can already give them the title ... believe me i fence wiuth those guys in national, and i saw them last at france champ, attely is amazing at the moment, and sthgg like 3 or 4 at world ranking ...

i bet on attely for individual ... for the best result ...

and i guess the team is unbeatabble ... i d take bets on this ..

[soos]

for those who need it : WC site :
http://www.escrime2001.com/

[d8m]

Originally posted by damianip:
<STRONG>

I want to hate Obry because I also think he's a jerk, however (and I can't get my son to admit this, he's with you on this), he is an elegant, extremely effective fencer.
[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: damianip ]</STRONG>

Agreed. He's the guy everyone loves to hate. However, just because I hate him doesn't mean he's not good. I like his point control.

And that Olympic bout with Fischer was annoying! I still wonder why the ref carded Fischer on the final action. The contact then was minimal, and Obry stepped into it. Oh well, I guess the benefits of an instant reply are debatable...

[d8m]

Originally posted by soos:
<STRONG>

u can already give them the title ... believe me i fence wiuth those guys in national, and i saw them last at france champ, attely is amazing at the moment, and sthgg like 3 or 4 at world ranking ...

i bet on attely for individual ... for the best result ...

and i guess the team is unbeatabble ... i d take bets on this ..</STRONG>

Those are some strong statements. How much would you be willing to bet?

I think China has a very good chance of beating France.
And is Italy's team still intact from last year?

Also, Germany has 3 fencers in the top 8 in the standings...

Although personally the only french fencers I root for are Srecki, L'Hotellier, and Flessel-Colovic. And Srecki is retired, no?

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: d8m ]

[swordsen]

Damianip the fencing bookie..... Everything but the odds. I am impressed.
No Eurosport huh? that is too bad. I was hoping to buy a set of the tapes this year as I missed last years.
Oh well.

[veeco]

My money in the individual in men's foil is Guyart. I think he will have the best individual result among the French team.

In team MF, I don't think France will do well, though I'd like it if they did.

In ME, the French team is invincible. Since the Olympics, they have not lost one match. I'd like to see Fabrice Jeannet get a medal, because he represents the talented youth, and I'd like to see him as the next great epeeist of the decade. Kolobkov and Delhomme will have their word to say too. Obry won't make it past the top 16, I think. The final in the team will be either France - Spain or France - Italy. Note how France is in the top of the tableau and Italy and Spain will have to battle in Semi-Final. Italy will have a long shot because they are seeded poorly in the tableau (10th place).

In MS, the team is very open. 4 different nations won 5 of the team world cups this year. My money is on France because I am a patriot :-). In the individual, I wanna see Kothny from Germany win, because he is simply the most dedicated of all. I think he is the one fencer who competes in the most world cups per year, in all weapons. I'd like to see Pillet from France do well to, he's a nice guy.

Then in WF, I don't know. Hopefully the US will do good and get a medal in team, even though as it was said before I am not sure they trained very hard. In individual I can't seem to think that the Italians will have any problem.

In WE, I want to see Laura Flessel win. She's hungry, she hasn't fenced for the whole season, so it's a long shot and she just had a baby, so her mind might not be into competing right now, but she's a fighter and she's the only woman I like to watch in epee.

In WS, go team USA!

[edew]

Let me ping my possible suppliers to see if anyone of them could tape the WCs.

As for France, Plumenail and L'Hotelier gone is a big loss. Guyart is quite good. Ferrari may be beatable. His game is very limited.

The chinese MF team may not be back with the same squad of the OG and 1999 WC, so they may not do as well. Sorry to say, but the US MF team will not be doing well at all. Top 16 max.

Individually, Kim and Bissdorf are favorites. I do like Magni. Boy, that guy's got one heck of a rubber leg. Sanzo is too emotional, and short. Sobczak will self-destruct. Mocek might be better. Whatever happened to the cubans? The russian foil team is decimated with the retirement of Chevtschenko and Mamedov.

The Hungarian women epeeists and the Swiss women epeeists are in contention. I think the Swiss WE team can be a big factor, and may get to top 4. The Chinese WE team, although made it to the top 4 in the OG-Sydney, may not be a big factor. The usual suspects will be there individually: Flessel-Colovic, Nagy, Toth, Mincza, maybe Hableutzel-Buerki. The US team will not be a factor in any way. The US team is just too inexperienced.

Men's Sabre? Don't forget Pozdniakov, Charikov, Fossine, and the other russians. Covaliu will still ride the OG reputation for a couple of points. The Germans, Kothy, Webber, Bauer will be a factor. I think Kothy will make top-8. I don't know about the italians. They did so well in 1998, with Tarantino beating Caserta in the individual finals. But they've not been a presence since. US sabre fencers? I think Ivan Lee can make top-16. Medal? He's got the spunk, but I think he's too young and don't have enough international experience to medal (read: haven't earned enough reputation points to get those simultaneous touches to go his way, or at least go as simultaneous).

Women's Foil: clearly the big guns are italy. They'll win WF team for sure. Can't count out Sabine Bau or Rita Koenig from Germany. They would be the main opponents for Italy. The US WF team won't be too strong, even though they're the same group as from the OG. None of them, as far as I can tell, are training very hard. There's this think call a "career" (especially in the current economic downturn) that's putting fencing in the back burner. I think it's a good possibility of the US women's foil team to medal. Other than Italy, Germany, and Romania, what other country is a powerhouse in women's foil team?

Men's epee is an open field with Srecki and many others out. Is Kolobkov still fencing? Isn't he coaching at OSU? Don't forget Vanky from Sweden. He's still very much in the sport and has a very good chance to medal. Getting the gold? Not inconceivable. The Swiss fencers are also pretty good, too. And how about the Lee guy from Korea? He did take bronze at the OG. Has he been competing?

Eric Hansen has the best chance among the US fencers. I think he has plenty of international experience to give it a go. Nat Burke should be happy he's there. Good for him. But he won't be much of a factor. Then again, it's epee, and I know Nat: he's fast and strong, and he doesn't have a back arm to accidentally get hit upon (always a pain in foil when the guy misses my body, I hit him, and he finishes by hitting my back arm) :-)
Teamwise: Hungary, Italy, France will be the big players. What happened the cuban team? The Russians probably won't be a factor either. Maybe the Koreans will be a factor as well. The US might get top 16, at best. Probably finish better than the US MF team.

Women's sabre? Very strong possibility that the US team will get a medal. Gold? Not impossible. It's not like there are that many very experienced women sabre fencers out there. Maybe Zagunis can finish off the season with a senior Women's Sabre individual title. The US women will be a factor, and probably will make top 8 individually. Top-4 as a team.

[d8m]

Hm...
Interesting views...

ME
I hope Fiedler from Germany does well. He's young and it could be great rivalry between him and Jeannet. Fiedler is #1 and Jeannet #2. But really, as long as Obry loses, and I get to see him cry like at Sydney, I'll be happy. I really still miss the retired fencers like Schmitt, Srecki, Cuomo, and Mazzoni.

MF
I like Bissdorf. I think he take Kim, and any Guyart. Besides, he wants it this year.

WE
The Hungarians and Flessel rock.

WF
The Italians, and then the Romanians. Badea is good, and so is Scarlat. The Germans third definitely.

MS
I don't know much about, but I like Tarantino

WS
I don't know much about, so I'll go Patriotic.
USA!