cup question

[Lordy]

Guys, I don't know why everyone is assuming that a "bad lunge" can end up with a gentleman's member being skewered... a good lunge can do the same thing!! Remember that in foil, the groin is target area. The groin is reachable with low-line attacks. An example that comes to mind is a prime-riposte at close range. Hell, if a foilist doesn't where a cup, others might consider it a duty to "inform" the wayward gentleman of its merits by "skewering" him upon the strip. Hee hee hee (malicious insane grin).
+Lordy

[Mr_Foilist]

You know, I'm always amazed at the responses that I see whenever this issue comes up.
I'm actually amazed that there are guys out there that just refuse to wear one.

Let's look at some of the reasons why:

1)(the most popular of them all) It restricts movement.

I don't know what kind of en guarde you guys are using but the very nature of the stance perfectly suits the use of a cup. Your legs should be positioned so that they are perpendicular to each other, forcing you to keep them spread apart. Because of this, the cup shouldn't even be noticeable because it's not even rubbing up against your legs. The only time when you might notice that it's there is when you do a cross-over advance/retreat or a fleche. But, even then, provided that your jock strap isn't too tight, the cup will shift and allow you to move comfortably. If this is a real problem for you, consider getting a bigger jock strap.

2) The cup can actually make the situation more dangerous

I always found this one to be particularly funny. The groin is valid target in foil and epee. If I can hit you there, I will. What in the world makes you guys think that wearing a cup is going to make a direct hit to the grapes more painful when wearing a cup as opposed to not wearing one? If anything, you face the possibiliy of my point actually snagging skin through the fabric of the knickers and yanking on the scrotum. I don't know about you but, that would hurt me a hell of a lot.

Also, what do you think will happen when a broken blade finds it's way down there? Statistically unfavorable, maybe. But still, it's a possibility. Why take the risk?

I could present even more idiotic reasons for not wearing a cup but I have a life and places to go. The point is, don't be stupid. Where a damn cup. If you get the sizing of the strap right and perfect your technique, you shouldn't even notice that you're wearing one. You also won't have to worry about where your oponent's blade is pointing while he/she is remising.

Wear a cup.

Mr Foilist



[This message has been edited by Mr_Foilist (edited 10-23-2000).]

[big poppa]

For a second there I thought we were talkin about comdoms

[Moonitic]

Lordy,

ahh..you caught us! Some of the women from our club are encouraged to go after the cupless me. One guy whined about it at a competition after getting hit there. What did the director say? "It's target. Deal with it."

Mr. Foilist,

In research for my cup article for Themestream.com, I came across quite a few stories that would make men keel over.

In fact, at a recent Sectional Championship, one girl had a broken foil blade go thru her lame, jacket, plastron &, believe it or not, break a hole in her Xena bra. It ended up barely scratching her. Now, if that was a man & it was "elsewhere"...& he wasn't wearing that kind of protection...know where he'd be now? In a world of trouble!

Oh well...some prefer to be "manly"...but you'd never see a knight without his armor on in the heat of battle! And I'm sure all that metal was a LOT more uncomfortable than a silly little cup that some men may feel too self conscious about wearing.

To all the men who DO wear them...good for you! Survival of the fittest!

[Emfuser]

I have worn a cup for all the years I have fenced and have counted 11 total impacts on my cup during bouts. Every single one of those people apologized to me but I just rapped it (the cup) with my knuckles so they could hear what was there and said "best $7 I ever spent." The usual response is a grin or chuckle from the fencer and a puzzled look from the director.

I (and my club) STRONGLY recommend cup usage to our beginners every semester. Still, every year or so SOME idiot insists on learning the hard way. It's funny but makes me cringe to see someone crumpled in a little ball on the strip.

My input for the day,
Mike

[Mr_Foilist]

Moonitic, maybe I'm reading applying the wrong attitude to your post, or maybe it's the fact that I haven't had my morning cup of coffee, but, it sounds like you think that I disagree with wearing a cup. Quite the contrary. In fact, if you look at my post, I do tell guys to "wear a damn cup."

If I read the wrong idea into your post, I apologize. I just felt the need to clarify.

Originally posted by Moonitic:

Mr. Foilist,

In research for my cup article for Themestream.com, I came across quite a few stories that would make men keel over.

In fact, at a recent Sectional Championship, one girl had a broken foil blade go thru her lame, jacket, plastron &, believe it or not, break a hole in her Xena bra. It ended up barely scratching her. Now, if that was a man & it was "elsewhere"...& he wasn't wearing that kind of protection...know where he'd be now? In a world of trouble!

Oh well...some prefer to be "manly"...but you'd never see a knight without his armor on in the heat of battle! And I'm sure all that metal was a LOT more uncomfortable than a silly little cup that some men may feel too self conscious about wearing.

To all the men who DO wear them...good for you! Survival of the fittest! [/b]

[scarlet_woman156k]

Mr_Foilist,
I'm going to be a bit reminiscent of Beavis and Butthead when I say this: You said "grapes." hehe. That really REALLY got me rolling for some reason.

Thanks for the laugh!

scarlet.

[This message has been edited by scarlet_woman156k (edited 10-20-2000).]

[sabredude]

I must admit that I am somewhat surprised at the response to this topic. For a long time I thought I was the only one who wore a cup. I only knew one maybe two others who did. I fence mostly sabre now but I used to fence the others and have worn one for almost the entire time I have fenced. While it is not a rule it is a good idea. Sometimes it is not real comfy but the three times I have been nailed 'right there' I am glad I had it on. I have even seen some guys fold in half from a shot 'right there' and still say they don't need a cup. Is a rule, no. Is it a good idea, yes. Then again those not smart enough to wear one should not reproduce anyway.

dust...

[Lumberg]

As you have already read, it is not a rule that men have to wear a cup at a tournament. As an FYI for the men, Allstar makes an undershort which can hold a cup and also is made of kevlar for extra protection. It's a bit expensive though.

[Moonitic]

ahh...No, Mr. Foilist...I thought you AGREED with wearing a cup, & for that I was agreeing with YOU...

More coffee, dear?

[Mr_Foilist]

More coffee, dear?[/b][/quote]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm........cofffeeeee.....aghhhhhhhhh ::leans head back and drools like Homer Simpson::

[Moonitic]

Oh yeah...since we're talking about throwing caution to the wind, how about those silly seatbelts? Who needs 'em anyway? And helmets? How about if a skydiver just forgets that silly piece of equipment called a "parachute"? He should be able to fall better.

[Gavin.com]

I must say that I find this topic quite amusing!

I'm not going to say whether I wear a cup or not, but arguments about seatbelts etc (no offence ment here Moon) are a little academic.

Before seatbelts were legislated (in most countries & certainly in Europe), very few people wore them. Even after their use was proven to save lives, people didn't wear them in the back seat until that was legislated too (as late as 1989 in some parts of Europe).

No amount of brow beating or logic will change die hard "non wearers" until the rules change (or they lose one of their "boys")- I think it's just human nature.

[JWS]

Since I like to have sex, I'm going to continue wearing a cup. Also-its kinda like a modern day version of a codpiece--get an extra large one (strictly for comfort of course) and, with tight knickers, you might get noticed.

[HilandDoug]

Ever see Henry VIII's codpieces in the Tower Armory? That's the kind of cup I want!

[kestrel]

Thanks Guys!!!

Okay, I read through this whole topic last week and after many a complaint convinced my son to wear a cup during his first tournament last weekend. Guess what, bout #2... "thunk!" Saved him at least three times in one day.

You guys are right, you have to be stupid not to wear one.

[Moonitic]

kestrel, your future grandchildren thank you!

To end all the silliness, there really should be a rule about it. Either that or a rule about COMPLAINING or SUEING once it happens & you're singing soprano. Wanna be a "man"? Take it like one. I'll continue to aim low. :0) Just remember: when you threaten to hit me in my breasts, I don't cringe...but if I even MENTION kicking a man in the nuts, they fold over like an accordian.

[MikeHarm]

I don't think it should be a rule. If it was a rule, they'd have to check that you were wearing one right? Do we really want the ref's grabbing at you or something to make sure you had a cup on? Thats a little too creepy for me.

Mike

[eternal109]

As for the checking to see if you have a cup, I'll inform how the SCA does it, the marshalls use a schaelger blade. Needless to say us SCAdiens were cups.

[sabreuse]

Mike,

They could check men for cups the same way they check women for breast protectors. No one comes up and gives you a squeeze. You just knock on your chest. If things sound "solid", you're good to go.

Cheryl